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  #21  
Old 09-29-2006, 10:45 AM
vulturesrow vulturesrow is offline
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Default Re: KK OOP - Paired Flop

There is absolutely nothing wrong with checking this flop. The mistake was made on the turn. Either a strong lead or c/r was in order.
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  #22  
Old 09-29-2006, 10:50 AM
allaboutmyfetti allaboutmyfetti is offline
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Default Re: KK OOP - Paired Flop

OP - I agree with your line of thinking on some hands, but I don't think this is one of them. I c-bet like, 95% of the time heads up and my opening standards can be pretty loose. That said, QQ4 is a pretty standard c-bet for me so I'm pretty much making a cbet here regardless of what I hold. In this case it happens to be KK, but could just as easily be 66.

As you played the hand, I would probably make a value/blocking bet on the river rather than a c/c c/f. an A high or smaller PP might give up on the river and want to get a sd for free so a 1/2 or more pot bet might get some value for these hands. if villian pushed then. .... yeah I dunno ... I wo uld probably call b/c the pot is so big.
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  #23  
Old 09-29-2006, 10:56 AM
Redd Redd is offline
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Default Re: KK OOP - Paired Flop

[ QUOTE ]
There is absolutely nothing wrong with checking this flop. The mistake was made on the turn. Either a strong lead or c/r was in order.

[/ QUOTE ]

Given that he's not likely to have stumbled into a backdoor flush draw, can't the reasoning behind the flop check be applied to the turn as well? This might be results-oriented, but what about check-calling the turn and firing a blocking/value bet on the river?
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  #24  
Old 09-29-2006, 11:40 AM
Dave I Dave I is offline
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Default Re: KK OOP - Paired Flop

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There is absolutely nothing wrong with checking this flop. The mistake was made on the turn. Either a strong lead or c/r was in order.

[/ QUOTE ]

Given that he's not likely to have stumbled into a backdoor flush draw, can't the reasoning behind the flop check be applied to the turn as well? This might be results-oriented, but what about check-calling the turn and firing a blocking/value bet on the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I like this line the best. I think he is drawing to 2 or 3 outs at best if we're not crushed already and has a flush draw almost never unless it's precisely AK [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. His turn bet was barely more than half pot. I felt is was a scared bet. I think I would have folded or raised a bigger bet on the turn.
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  #25  
Old 09-29-2006, 11:54 AM
Dave I Dave I is offline
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Default Re: KK OOP - Paired Flop

[ QUOTE ]
OP - I agree with your line of thinking on some hands, but I don't think this is one of them. I c-bet like, 95% of the time heads up and my opening standards can be pretty loose. That said, QQ4 is a pretty standard c-bet for me so I'm pretty much making a cbet here regardless of what I hold. In this case it happens to be KK, but could just as easily be 66.


[/ QUOTE ]

I c-bet very close to 95-100% HU as well. I just took a different line in this case. I am betting this flop 100% of the time with any hand except AA/KK. We have tons of showdown value but can be easily pushed off our hand.
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  #26  
Old 09-29-2006, 12:59 PM
BungalowBill BungalowBill is offline
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Default Re: KK OOP - Paired Flop

Heads up, I pot it regardless of the flop with KK. I think you would have had a much better idea of where you stood had you done that.

As played, I think a half-pot blocking bet would have either ended it or made your river decision a lot easier.
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