KK OOP - Paired Flop

Dave I · #1 09-28-2006, 07:48 PM

Villain is nothing worthy. Typical loose player. But he's only been at table for a round or two. I have been playing tight.

Absolute Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.10/$0.25
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Dave: $56.05
UTG+1: $35.67
CO: $30
Button: $24.95
SB: $9.90
BB: $21.70

Pre-flop: (6 players) Dave is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Dave raises to $1.5, UTG+1 folds, CO calls, 3 folds.

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($3.35, 2 players)
Dave checks, CO bets $2, Dave calls.

Turn: 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($7.35, 2 players)
Dave checks, CO bets $4, Dave calls.

River: 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($15.35, 2 players)
Dave checks, CO is all-in $22.5, Dave ??.

I'm not worried about the flush hitting. Basically, just a Q.

pernavoi · #2 09-28-2006, 07:57 PM

Maybe check-raise on turn would have gave you information you needed.

Hard call at river. At least in Party I have seen this kind of moves from loose players with very strong hands. So fold without strong reads.

ymu · #3 09-28-2006, 08:25 PM

Why the 6x raise preflop? Why hand him the initiative on the flop? You played this pretty weak throughout so it's impossible to know what he's got - any pocket pair could play it this way.

Lead flop and take it from there, or check/call flop and lead turn for about 75% of the pot.

He's betting suspiciously small throughout, and then the big overbet on the river when a scare card comes ... At some point - a lot earlier - you need to show some strength to prevent a big river bluff, charge him if he picked up a flush draw on the turn, or provoke a reraise AI so you can get out of the way cheaply.

WutRUTryin2Hit · #4 09-28-2006, 08:49 PM

You underplayed your hand on the flop and the turn, and found yourself in a tough spot where he has so little information about your hand that he could easily be value betting 88, 10-10, JJ, etc, here. The small bet, small bet, all-in on the river thing DOES sometimes mean a monster, but a lot of times bad players do more like.. check the flop, check the turn, push the river. And really, his river bet is only 150% of pot, which means less than if he had more money behind and pushed for 500% of the pot.

I probably call here, just cause you've defined your hand so badly. If he has a Q, oh well, but I think you're ahead of a lot of hands here.

Dave I · #5 09-28-2006, 09:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Why the 6x raise preflop? Why hand him the initiative on the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because they will call with worse hands. It's not my standard though but I do mix it in sometimes.

ymu · #6 09-28-2006, 09:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why the 6x raise preflop? Why hand him the initiative on the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because they will call with worse hands. It's not my standard though but I do mix it in sometimes.

[/ QUOTE ]
Do you mix it in only with big PPs? If so, it won't take (some of) them long to work it out. Which is useful if you mix it back sometime later when one or two of them will have noticed - 6x with 45s and 4x with AA, etc.

Thrahl · #7 09-28-2006, 09:28 PM

HE backed into something, Looks like 66 or maybe a backdoored flush, I fold.
Why are you checking this flop?

Dave I · #8 09-28-2006, 09:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Do you mix it in only with big PPs? If so, it won't take (some of) them long to work it out. Which is useful if you mix it back sometime later when one or two of them will have noticed - 6x with 45s and 4x with AA, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do it based on table conditions and not the strength of my hand. If they are regularly calling my raises I make them bigger until I find a sweet point. For value.

Dave I · #9 09-28-2006, 09:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Why are you checking this flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because I don't want to fold worse hands and I want to get to showdown.

ymu · #10 09-28-2006, 09:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Why are you checking this flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because I don't want to fold worse hands and I want to get to showdown.

[/ QUOTE ]
Did you get to showdown?

Keeping worse hands in is fine, but giving them free or cheap chances to outdraw you and an opportunity to bluff you off the river is throwing money away. Against a very aggressive opponent, check-calling/check-raising the flop is fine, but if you check the turn and river as well you will have no idea where you stand when he pushes AI with his 55-TT or A4 or whatever he has.

If you lead this flop they won't be giving you credit for a Q. Pocket pairs will call along and AK might get suspicious enough to stick around.