Bankroll and Moving up

[ajmargarine]

Some general thoughts on moving up for a winning SSNL player:

--The accepted wisdom is that you should have 20-40 full buy-ins for the level that you are playing at. I believe this is sound advice. This guideline should keep you from ever going broke. The higher the level, the higher the variance, the more buy-ins you need. You want to play optimally at all times, with bankroll NEVER being a consideration for an in-game decision.

--Determine your base comfort level (bankroll and limit). Say you've been a NL50 player all year. You've been winning at an OK rate. You feel real comfortable, by personal experience, with a 22 buy-in bankroll, $1100. This is your base comfort level. It'll be different for everyone.

--But, you want to move up. Do you wait til you have $2000-$2500 in the bankroll to make the move to NL100? NO. Start taking shots sooner. Say, when the bankroll hits $1500, move up and take a shot. If you lose, and find yourself back at $1100, go back to NL50, and grind away til $1500 again. Rinse, repeat.

--Know that when you hit your base comfort level, you'll go back down to the level you are comfortable with. But, you don't need a full bankroll to take shots at moving up.

--Make the move permanent when you are fully rolled for the next level. But, you would be wise to think of yourself as being in a range when it comes to limits. Don't think of yourself as a NL100 player. Feel comfortable in a range NL50-NL200. Play where your instincts tell you to play. Playing real well. Play at the high end. Playing crappy at a bad time of the day, play on the low end. Etc. (TWP)

--The mid and high guys will tell you that all SSNL is full of donks and fish and all levels are basically the same. Pffft. Don't kid yourself. Each level is more difficult than the one below. If you are beating NL50, NL100 will be more difficult. There's less fish and more skilled players as you move up. HOWEVER, the difference in play is not that great. If you are beating one level, you should be able to be a winning player at the next level. It just takes time to get acclimated.

[Isura]

Good post AJ. What are your thoughts on the # of tables to try when moving up? I tend to just jump in and try get hands in, but my winrate is very low/negative for the first few thousand hands at a limit.

[mudbuddha]

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] im a over bankrolled nit..

[orange]

good post, i agree with the moving up earlier. i think that taking stabs at a higher level is good when you have say, $1500 for 100nl/$6000 for 400nl/etc. Take shots, and if you run well, then stay at the level...run bad, move back down to rebuild. rinse, wash and repeat and you'll eventually get it.

[derosnec]

1 buy-in is plenty. If you need more than that, then you have no game.

[ajmargarine]

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Good post AJ. What are your thoughts on the # of tables to try when moving up?

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You usually are advised to play less tables at the beginning when you are first moving up. IMO, I don't think that that's a must. Sometimes, part of the reason you are a winning player is that you 4-table. You play tight and the more tables you play, the more hands you see, the less you try to force things when you are card dead. And you stay focused because you are constantly making decisions.

IMHO, when moving up, try and play the same amount of tables you are playing at the level you are comfortable with.

[gimmetheloot]

I like to take shots when i have 22 buyins for my current level...IE $550 @ 25NL now is one buyin of NL50 and keeping the rest the same.

[AZplaya]

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IMHO, I would say to try and play the same amount of tables you are playing at the level you are comfortable with.

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I agree with this. I took some shots at NL$100 this weekend, and only played 2 tables at a time. I normally play at least 6, sometimes as many as 9 tables of NL$50 6m, so only playing 2 tables was a horrible idea. I lost focus, got board, and got away from my ABC tag game. When you are used to 500-700 hands per hour, it's tough to play 150/hour.

[cbloom]

AJ, good post.

One thing I'll add, for those moving up : have confidence in your game and keep playing your game. Don't feel like you need to make more moves or that you're outclassed - you might just be having a bad run of cards or you might just be nervous from playing the higher stakes. Just play good poker like you always do. This really screwed me up the first few times I took shots at NL200, I felt like I had to play "more advanced" and started over-thinking and getting burned by FPS.

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IMHO, when moving up, try and play the same amount of tables you are playing at the level you are comfortable with.

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Hmm.. for me this wasn't a good idea. Also, I disagree with people who suggest playing a few tables at your regular level and one at the higher level. Mixing levels like that can be really confusing. For me, I now 4-table NL100 and am pretty lazy about taking notes because I have a really good read on how typical villains play. I don't have the same read for people at NL200 and it helps me a lot to play that level and take more notes, pay more attention, which I can't do with 4 tables, I usually just 2-table it right now.

[thedustbustr]

I take shots with 15 buyins for the level I'm shooting for. I play 4 tables there to limit losses, if I'm in the mood to 9 table then the rest are tables for my current level. I play this way until I lose 5B (net) at that level (leaving 20B for my current level).

About half the time it works and I stay at the higher level. The other half of the time I run breakeven for a while then eventually end up -5B from what I started with, and move back down.

This approach does wonders for your skill (opponents get better, robot-stacking donks does nothing for your game), and of course, your bankroll grows exponentially. This is why I've always said that if you are serious about using poker as a source of income, you are a fool to cash out of your bankroll in the early stages of your career (i.e. SSNL).