Don't raise AK preflop, ever acceptable?

[futuredoc85]

blah blah blah this thread is about preflop and there is one correct answer- you should raise AK >90% of the time period.

[LifeIsABadBeat]

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blah blah blah this thread is about preflop and there is one correct answer- you should raise AK >90% of the time period.

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Wow, that took 7 pages?

[futuredoc85]

well you can change your post settings but now maybe you see why this thread life-tilts me. esp after i posted a 100k hand sample with AK as a big winner raising it 94% of the time

[Gonso]

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Gonzo, at first I agreed with you that one of my comments maybe did not add to the conversation. Then I see later you post a funny photo possibly ascribing kitten like qualities to those who play AK differently. I'm not sure if your trying to add to the conversation or be funny. Either way, I'm not offended or tilted by your remarks. My post was intended to get people thinking and reviewing this post shows clearly it was porovocative.

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First off, lighten up a little bit. I'm not sure why emo kitten would offend you or tilt you if you’re an adult, especially after you yourself came in talking as if no one here knows how to play AK and made a number of snide commets.

Second, you've been backpedaling quite a bit since your first post in the thread. Just so there’s no misunderstanding what I’m referring to:


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If I'm in the cutoff or on the button and it's folded to me, I'm not raising most of the time with calling stations to my left.

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And then,


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In the BB and it's folded around to me I would almost NEVER raise with it

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Later that turned into how you actually do usually raise AK most of the time. In the second case, I’ll assume you meant SB since you can’t raise if it’s folded to you in the BB. Anyway, both of these plays are tight-passive by definition. So is referring to AK as a “relatively weak holding.”

In the first scenario, you’re not even button raising AK preflop for value against two calling stations in the blinds… this pretty much defies the concept of exploiting your opponents mistakes. You’ve passed up a very +EV move to go to the flop with two guys whose ranges are literally any two cards. If one hits a king with KT or whatever, he’s calling you down just the same in a raised pot as he would be if you had limped, so why not get more value for your hand? Because you’re afraid to play a big pot with someone who will call you down light?

I'm sorry if you don't like people telling you you're playing this wrong, but that's the truth. Beyond that, your OP is rife with misapplied poker theory. Maybe you should cut back on making comments like "is the light in your head coming on" until you get the basics down.

Anyway the OPs question has been answered a dozen times over. If someone is still having trouble open a Beginner's thread, or if you want to brag about how astounding you are like every other person seems to be doing, BBV is for you (warning: more MS Paints there)

[El_Hombre_Grande]

I thought the kitten photo said more about poker theory than the entire rest of the thread. How else do you respond to someone who claims AK is a "pretty but crappy hand" and a "relatively weak holding"? Those suggesting it sucks said we needed to get our "noses out of books" and that you "don't need 55 math equations." If you reject book teachin', pokerstove, and Future Doc's database, what else is left to discuss but the kittycat?

[GeeBeeQED]

Ok, Ok, my language was a bit strong and colorful. However Gonzo, it should be noted that I'd be in the cutoff with AK only 10% of the time at a full table where I was delt AK. And then it would be folded around to me only some fraction of the time I had the hand. Maybe 20% depending on the table. So, in this exact circumstance I'd find myself in only about 2% of the time I was delt AK. I don't see where my remarks are inconsistant. Most of the time in most spots I'm raising as I'm in a situation where I might have to play it against too many players or the wrong combination of player types or position considerations etc.... There is nothing inconnsistant about my remarks, you quote me correctly.

Incidentally, I'm only expanding on the one "time" I mostly slowplay AK preflop above. Obvously there are some other specialized situations. I only expand on this one item to clairfy what you did not seem to grasp from my words. Maybe my writing (and certainly my spelling) could be improved to aviod such misinterpritations. ;-)

In this very rare circumstance I described (folded to me in the cutoff) just above, I might raise with it if for example I'd raised in this spot several times and it looked as if I was on another steal. Or, if after several raises in this spot I'd recently layed down to a reraise. I'd raise in such a situation for deceptive purposes primarily unders those circumstances.

Certainly some effort at deception is part of proper play. The question was if it was ever correct not to raise with this hand. I provided examples where I argue there is a proper time. Even one players example showed he raised with it all but 6% of the time. He's not being critisized so I presume he's earned your respect. Yet, at some level we agree that it is not an "always raise" hand.

You know me from nobody and my read is that if Skalansky or Zee or some other known and respected player gave an example(s) where they would consider not raising with AK you wouldn't go so far out of your way to try to characterize them as you have me. Maybe I could flip through thier books, I have most of them. But, it's not really worth the time to extend a debate that is getting old.

One of the problems with poker chat is it is so easy to misinterprit or look at others through a lens of contempt and it's so easy to be tough and abrasive from the other side of a keyboard. Many conversations seem to degenerate into "you suck", "you suck worse" type of bickering that any constructive evaluation of an idea is lost. Our conversation hasn't gone that far......yet. I takes two to get it there. I won't be a part of it going there.

I'm here to learn and offer my ideas on the various subjects. Certainly I have much to learn. Anybody that says they have nothing left to learn would lie about other things too.

Your words can be last for others to read if you like. I think I've offered all I can constructively to this conversation. I've enjoyed your posts as some of the better ones I read on this site and I will continue to think of you in that positive light.

These are my last comments in this thread.

Dave