Razz 8/16 - steal didn't work, how to proceed?

[RustyBrooks]

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Folding 3rd is normal sorry

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Do you mean not stealing there (I would) or folding to the raise (that seems close to me)?

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Folding to the raise is super standard.

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In villains spot I raise most live 3 card eights or better, like I'd like an 853 here. I really think that's the worst you'll see from a *good* player and you're a 2:1 dog but you're getting (immediate) odds of 4:1 to call the raise.

I might tend to fold because this is going to be a difficult hand to play from 4th on. But an argument could be made to call and re-evaluate 4th.

[Praxising]

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This hand, and this villain, remind me of an article I read a while back by Annie Duke which states in part:

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Now what? If you are in position and the maniac is betting into you after the flop, just call. If you are out of position, just check and call. The reason for this tactic is this: chances are that he is bluffing. If you raise, you will get him to fold and lose all the money he would have continued to bluff off on later streets. Against a maniac you should wait until the river to raise when you think you have the best hand. Never discourage him from bluffing off his money. This is probably the most important aspect of playing the maniac, make sure you allow him to bluff every last penny.

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This was certainly a case where I had to play the player rather than the cards. I figured that his range to raise 3rd street included a lot of junk hands. With the starting hand I had, I had to basically follow the line advocated by Annie above, which loses me the least when he actually has a hand, and which wins me the most when he's got junk.

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Then you knew what to do on 6th. The question is: what kind of hand do you think Annie would be holding when using this tactic?

[ChipsAhoya]

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Folding 3rd is NOT normal sorry

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Do you mean not stealing there (I would) or folding to the raise (that seems close to me)?

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Folding to the raise is NOT super standard.

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How is this super standard??????? Skalansky says call the resteal w/ a T, let alone a 9... The worst you can possibly be is a 2:1 dog and you're getting 4:1. You can jump up to a 60:40 favorite on the very next card! Do you fold AQ for one more bet preflop? Besides, you don't want to be pegged as a folder on 3rd because stealing on FTP is very profitable. Folding 3rd is just awful.

-ChipsAhoya

[Praxising]

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How is this super standard??????? Skalansky says call the resteal w/ a T, let alone a 9... The worst you can possibly be is a 2:1 dog and you're getting 4:1. You can jump up to a 60:40 favorite on the very next card! Do you fold AQ for one more bet preflop? Besides, you don't want to be pegged as a folder on 3rd because stealing on FTP is very profitable. Folding 3rd is just awful.

-ChipsAhoya

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Then, isn't a reraise a much better response than a call?

[ChipsAhoya]

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How is this super standard??????? Skalansky says call the resteal w/ a T, let alone a 9... The worst you can possibly be is a 2:1 dog and you're getting 4:1. You can jump up to a 60:40 favorite on the very next card! Do you fold AQ for one more bet preflop? Besides, you don't want to be pegged as a folder on 3rd because stealing on FTP is very profitable. Folding 3rd is just awful.

-ChipsAhoya

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Then, isn't a reraise a much better response than a call?

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No, because you're probably behind, just not far behind enough to fold.

-ChipsAhoya

[adanthar]

On FTP, if you call reraises of your completes 90%+ of the time/never 3 bet those reraises without some clown with an 8 or higher upcard showing also in the pot, you are probably playing close to correctly.