New Software: Holdem Manager

[freecard4all]

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yes want support for prima/ladbrokes/ipoker/svenskaspel (I play everywhere) [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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greetings to Sweden!
Prima and iPoker are supported.
Ladbrokes and svenskaspel aren't supported.
At least according to the Revision list.

I know it's all there but for us lazy people [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] there could be a quick official statement on what is actually supported.

[PokerTourist6]

Do you have a report showing open raise % by player and by that player's position?

[PokerAce]

Let's not turn this into a mud-slinging contest. There have been things said in the past that could be taken as disparaging, but let's try to keep it civil (on both sides). We'll both have good products, so let's keep it a healthy competition.

Derek is right about the import speed of PT3. I didn't give the exact number in my own post, but I told him. My computer is a 2.4 GHz Intel Core 2 CPU with 2 GB ram. I should state that I was also doing a number of other things on my computer while it was importing. I wasn't really trying to squeeze every drop out of the import (and I've spent limited time trying to speed it up).

If we are going to do benchmarks, here are some more numbers from the FGators database:

3 minutes 28 seconds to generate the player statistics summary for FGators.

1 minute 30 seconds to generate the money won graph.

These are unoptimized, but I'm curious to see how they compare to the speeds of the new version of HM (they are a lot faster than the current version, at least from what the guy who imported the FGators hands tells me).

Naturally, both of our applications are going to have bugs and room for improvement at this point. You've only been in beta 3 months and we haven't even started alpha testing yet.

[Makemegood]

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yes want support for prima/ladbrokes/ipoker/svenskaspel (I play everywhere) [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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greetings to Sweden!
Prima and iPoker are supported.
Ladbrokes and svenskaspel aren't supported.
At least according to the Revision list.

I know it's all there but for us lazy people [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] there could be a quick official statement on what is actually supported.

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Ladbrokes worked last time i tried

[APerfect10]

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1) lol at taking the high road. Have you read any of your posts?

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I have never spoke of your product. To be honest, its not even installed on my computer so I am not sure how I would be able to comment on it.

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2) "Disclaimer: My machine is good. Not current state-of-the-art, but good. I assembled it a year ago." - Josh.

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And that is equivalent to a "high-end" machine? Seems to be a blatant exaggeration on your part.

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3) Since when are product comparison's the low road? Again, have you read your posts?

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There is nothing wrong with product comparisons if you choose to compare your product with ours. What I have a problem with are the blatant lies and over exaggerations at which point I will certainly step in with the truth.

Much like Josh has said there really is no need to sling mud. I really did not even want to respond to this thread but I felt compelled to clear up your half truths. I will leave it at that.

Best of luck with your product...

-AP10

[Phil153]

PokerAce/APerfect10,

Only one person has ever been disparaging about the competition, and that's you. Some quotes:

PokerAce: "There are problems with Holdem Manager that I won't get into that lead me to believe it won't be the next PokerTracker"
"I imported 10,000 hands more than Holdem Manager. Pretty big difference actually."
APerfect10: "PT3 makes this a non-decision" (Unsolicited, in a thread about Poker Sharpener).
"I assume you want a product that will still be around in 2008" (same thread).

PokerAce also spammed a BBV thread (a moderator even had to tell you to stop spamming), unfairly comparing your product with HM. In case APerfect10 doesn't realize, this was Roy's answer to those unfair comparisons. This is the first time he's said anything about PT3.

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Now, I realize this looks a little different than the HM graph. That's because PT3 imported 1,565,869 hands and the HM screenshot only shows 1,555,729 hands. That's an additional 10,140 hands in PT3. Pretty big difference actually.

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http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...age=6&vc=1
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I was replying because someone said the HM graph was ugly. I was offering to show a graph that wasn't so "ugly".

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Roy has been honorable about this whole thing, and respectful of 2+2, never spamming or saying a bad word about anyone, even though there's plenty of bad stuff to say about PokerTracker.

I honestly don't get your attitude. The only reason HM exists is because PokerTracker Pat, sitting on a million+ dollars from his customers, didn't put a cent back into his product, didn't add any of the long requested features which he easily could have, and didn't innovate for years. If anything, you guys should be pleading for your customers to forgive you for treating them like crap. Because apart from everyday customer service (which you're very good at), you've treated your customers very badly when it comes to fixing basic product deficits, innovating, and doing timely upgrades.

[PokerAce]

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PokerAce/APerfect10,

Only one person has ever been disparaging about the competition, and that's you. Some quotes:

PokerAce: "There are problems with Holdem Manager that I won't get into that lead me to believe it won't be the next PokerTracker"
"I imported 10,000 hands more than Holdem Manager. Pretty big difference actually."
APerfect10: "PT3 makes this a non-decision" (Unsolicited, in a thread about Poker Sharpener).
"I assume you want a product that will still be around in 2008" (same thread).

PokerAce also spammed a BBV thread (a moderator even had to tell you to stop spamming), unfairly comparing your product with HM. In case APerfect10 doesn't realize, this was Roy's answer to those unfair comparisons. This is the first time he's said anything about PT3.

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Now, I realize this looks a little different than the HM graph. That's because PT3 imported 1,565,869 hands and the HM screenshot only shows 1,555,729 hands. That's an additional 10,140 hands in PT3. Pretty big difference actually.

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http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...age=6&vc=1
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I was replying because someone said the HM graph was ugly. I was offering to show a graph that wasn't so "ugly".

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Roy has been honorable about this whole thing, and respectful of 2+2, never spamming or saying a bad word about anyone, even though there's plenty of bad stuff to say about PokerTracker.

I honestly don't get your attitude. The only reason HM exists is because PokerTracker Pat, sitting on a million+ dollars from his customers, didn't put a cent back into his product, didn't add any of the long requested features which he easily could have, and didn't innovate for years. If anything, you guys should be pleading for your customers to forgive you for treating them like crap. Because apart from everyday customer service (which you're very good at), you've treated your customers very badly when it comes to fixing basic product deficits, innovating, and doing timely upgrades.

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If you're going to post one comment, post everything relevant so people get the whole picture. You quoted one post, I'll quote the other, which I made after people misinterpreted my original post:

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I was not doubting your skills as a developer or a designer. These aren't technical issues I was referring to. I have no desire to bash you or your product. It looks very well put together. I was simply responding to the idea that your software will make PokerTracker and PokerAce Hud "obsolete". I do not believe that is the case.

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That was in response to this post:

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Um.... your posting this because Hold Em Manager is coming out soon and will make PokerTracker and your product obsolete. Please don't post under the guise of wanting to satisfy your customers; it's a little late for that. This is actually meant for PT and not PAHUD since I have never had a problem with your software or customer service. It just sucks that your product will be attached to PT.

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A 10k hand difference is a big deal when talking about someone's results. In this instance, it was a $10k difference. I don't see how that comment is disparaging. I'm also not sure what you mean by unfairly comparing.

The whole "ugly" thing wasn't said by me. I quoted "ugly" because it's someone else's words, not mine (that's generally what quotes are used for). I offered to post a different looking graph is all and I got slammed for it.

Here's my first post in that thread:

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If someone gets me the hand histories, I can import them into PokerTracker 3 and give you a nice looking graph.

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Nothing said about HM in that comment.

Phil, here's your response to other people wanting a PT3 graph:

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What's that going to do? It's just a total graph...HM has already taken care of it after PokerTracker died.

PokerAce is just peddling his product, nothing more...he doesn't like it that Holdem Manager is showing them up. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

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Actually, now that I go back and read my posts, I don't feel they were "spammy." I was responding to negative posts directed to me. I feel the moderator jumped the gun a bit, but that's his perogative as a moderator. Another poster chimed in thinking my responses were fine.


As for Pat "not putting a cent" back into his product, you have no idea what you are talking about. You have no idea how much time answering HUNDREDS OF QUESTIONS PER DAY takes. In addition to all that support Pat was doing, he has gone through a lot in his personal life the past few years. Things that took up so much of his time that I have no idea how he managed to keep up with support issues as it was. As for hiring new help, well, that's not as easy as you think. For one, the job wouldn't be "secure" in the traditional sense. People who would be qualified to do the work either wouldn't want to do it (they'd make more money playing poker), or they wouldn't want to risk getting into a volatile industry.

Phil, for someone who claims not to have any sort of personal interest in HM, you sure do go out of your way to make negative comments towards PT3. You were the first to say something negative in the FGators thread, which this whole discussion is based on.

This thread is about Holdem Manager. I suggest everyone gets back on topic. If you have problems with me or APerfect10, please either send it via PM or if you insist on making it public, put it in our thread.

[Phil153]

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Phil, for someone who claims not to have any sort of personal interest in HM, you sure do go out of your way to make negative comments towards PT3

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I have only ever commented when you spam or say negative comments about a competitor, and then only a fraction of the time you've done it. And I have zero interest in HM.

I have made no negative comments toward PT3. Only negative comments towards your attitude on these forums. I happen to like 2+2 and post here a lot, whereas you just use it for commercial gain.

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As for Pat "not putting a cent" back into his product, you have no idea what you are talking about...As for hiring new help, well, that's not as easy as you think.

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Everything you say is fine...except for the fact you guys started VERY quickly as soon as competition came on the scene. The difficulties suddenly disappeared.

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This thread is about Holdem Manager. I suggest everyone gets back on topic.

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You guys started it, here and elsewhere. Don't spam, don't say bad stuff about competitors, and all is roses [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Apologies to Roy for taking up his thread, but you guys are getting worse and worse with this stuff and something needed to be said.

[rvg72]

ok guys, this thread is about HM. I have a lot that I could say but then this whole drama in my thread will continue if I responsd so let's drop this.

Roy

[PokerAce]

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I have only ever commented when you spam or say negative comments about a competitor, and then only a fraction of the time you've done it. And I have zero interest in HM.

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Offering to show a graph (when it is being requested) is not spam or a negative post. You posted a graph from your product after it was requested, so my post is no different.

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I have made no negative comments toward PT3. Only negative comments towards your attitude on these forums. I happen to like 2+2 and post here a lot, whereas you just use it for commercial gain.

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I was reading and posting on this forum for a long time before I even starting writing PA Hud. Most of my replies on this forum is in response to questions being asked about my product. Yes, lately I have been posting about PT3. Considering there are dozens of posts from developers about their up and coming and new products (even promoting their commercial products, which I was told was not allowed and therefore, refrain from suggesting my own product when people ask for opinions), I don't see this as a problem.

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Everything you say is fine...except for the fact you guys started VERY quickly as soon as competition came on the scene. The difficulties suddenly disappeared.

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The difficulties disappeared because I was fortunate enough to find a partner who knew my product well and was able to offer superb support, therefore giving me time to spend developing. He is sacrificing a lot to help us and he is gambling on the future of the company.

I will not be responding to any more of your posts in this thread. If you feel the need to get in the last word, go ahead.