Ho Chi Minh

[Kevin8423]

Which of them have been spotted in the $16s?

[Daleroxxu]

tigerbeer77 and spainsoccer play the 16s and 27s

they are both rotten

[Little John]

[ QUOTE ]
tigerbeer77 and spainsoccer play the 16s and 27s

they are both rotten

[/ QUOTE ]

tigerbeer77 has a 12% ROI at the 16's, 1400 games played.

I think most agree that all of the player(s) from ho chi minh have weaknesses but the bottom line is they pay rake, win back the rake, and then make a buck or two profit. They are taking money out of the games and they are playing tournaments all the time so the situation really stinks.

HOTMAIL1974 makes more stupid plays than anyone I can remember and he is up 23K in 4,440 tournaments.

[Josem]

This whole thread is pretty light on evidence and pretty heavy on hysteria.

Here are some responses to poor logic (from someone who doesn't play the Stars SNGs, and nor has any affection for bots, nor has any particular affection for Stars):

[ QUOTE ]
I saw a bunch on party a while back. They were all over the leaderboard. Can't remember all the names but one was yamahapro. I suspected bots aswell. However I also thought that in a country with low wages and living expenses perhaps it is considered very lucrative to play $10 sngs all day long if your good at it.

Based on the volume and push bot play tho I did supect bots.

[/ QUOTE ]

You've just tarred many of the posters here as being bots. Clearly, volume and "push bot play" is no evidence of being a bot.

I remember playing Yamahapro at party, and I imagine that I have a very significant database of hands played by him on my PC (I'm an avid dataminer). If people are interested, I can seek out that data and post it.

[ QUOTE ]
it seems pretty obvious now they are indeed bots.

[/ QUOTE ]

on the basis of the information provided in this thread, this seems to be a big leap, and unsupported by anything that i've read here. the playing stats provided in the thread show a degree of divergence, over a small size.

[ QUOTE ]
question- why would they not play at FTP or party instead? those sites actually have a leaderboard that pays. i could understand being busted at party, but it seems that playing at FTP would be more profitable

[/ QUOTE ]
it is possible that they are unable to obtain rakeback at FTP or party. such problems would not exist at PS. this is a significant factor in determining the site I play, and I imagine I am not alone in this regard.

[ QUOTE ]
Once again... it DOES NOT MATTER how good/bad they bots are (if they're bots). If they do anything "illegal" they must be stopped now!


[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see any evidence that these guys are bots.

LuisGallo's posted HH shows the alleged "bot" as pushing with 58 on a 347 flop while heads up. Surely no one has programmed that into a bot!

[ QUOTE ]
Are you kidding?
it was playing EXACTLY like bubble time.
folding to any bet or pushing.
who is going to play HU like this?
folding 4 times in a row with those blinds?


[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously? I play like that. Are you going to accuse me of being a bot if we ever get HU?

[ QUOTE ]
And above all I am not asking comments on my HU play, just wanted to show how automatic their playing is.


[/ QUOTE ]
LuisGallo's posted HH shows the alleged "bot" as pushing with 58 on a 347 flop while heads up. Surely no one has programmed that into a bot!

That's automatic? wtf?

[ QUOTE ]
Why doesn't PS ban them when they really play 24/7 and use collusion techniques

[/ QUOTE ]

There is no evidence that this is true.

[ QUOTE ]
I've noticed that there is only one ho chi minh player per table (at least at the 60's) so they dont use an collusion. That is a somwhat new development over the last couple of months (there were always two ho chi minh players per table in the past) so Pokerstars must have done something.

[/ QUOTE ]
It is not unusual for players who have a connection (money transfers, friends, locations, shared IP addresses, etc.) to be prevented from playing together.

This is a common situation, and not unusual. I assume that people who I have transferred money to, or who have accessed PS from the same IP address (2p2ers WhoIAm and DitchDigger spring to mind) , are not able to play on the same tables normally.

[bumpking]

[ QUOTE ]
tigerbeer77 and spainsoccer play the 16s and 27s

they are both rotten

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm so tired of people thinking these guys suck. spainsoccer has a positive ROI and 3600 games under his belt. That's alot of rakeback. I bet 90% of the people on this forum cannot duplicate those results.

I think everything they do is legal (i.e. not bot activity and no collusion). I just want to know how they all play so well. Do they have the same instructor? Do they all play from the same place and bounce HH off each other to learn?

Whatever they're doing, it's working. Whine all you want, but these dudes win.

-BK

[blackize]

Spainsoccer's ROI is 1%. That isn't good.

Tigerbeer77 has a 13% ROI at the 16s that is pretty solid.

[PattdownManiac]

All I know is I am tired of seeing hotmail1974.

[Fat Afghan]

I play with them on the 60s every day and i think they're nothing special. I can see how their style works well against unknowns but if you get a good read on them and make some good notes imo they're quite easy to play against.

[darom03]

SNiP33R9999 playing at my 27$ table right now (#52670332). From Ho Chi Minh.

Will comment on his play.

1st. hand: raised UTG w AQo. Called a min raise together w 2 others pf and then reraised all in with a queen on the flop. Got called by KK and sucked out:

PokerStars Game #10395988985: Tournament #52670332, $25+$2 Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2007/06/12 - 07:00:06 (ET)
Table '52670332 1' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: hero (1500 in chips)
Seat 2: 1.monalisa (1680 in chips)
Seat 3: CrazyHorse76 (1460 in chips)
Seat 4: theghstrider (1480 in chips)
Seat 5: Mr. Wojtas (1500 in chips)
Seat 6: SNiP33R9999 (1500 in chips)
Seat 7: Pezibaer75 (1380 in chips)
Seat 8: underdog7778 (1500 in chips)
Seat 9: clarkygizz (1500 in chips)
theghstrider: posts small blind 10
Mr. Wojtas: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [6c 9s]
SNiP33R9999: raises 40 to 60
Pezibaer75: raises 60 to 120
underdog7778: calls 120
clarkygizz: folds
Hero: folds
1.monalisa: folds
CrazyHorse76: folds
theghstrider: folds
Mr. Wojtas: calls 100
SNiP33R9999: calls 60
*** FLOP *** [2d Td Qs]
Mr. Wojtas: checks
SNiP33R9999: checks
Pezibaer75: bets 100
underdog7778: calls 100
Mr. Wojtas: raises 200 to 300
SNiP33R9999: raises 1080 to 1380 and is all-in
Pezibaer75: folds
underdog7778: folds
Mr. Wojtas: calls 1080 and is all-in
*** TURN *** [2d Td Qs] [Ac]
*** RIVER *** [2d Td Qs Ac] [7s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Mr. Wojtas: shows [Kc Kh] (a pair of Kings)
SNiP33R9999: shows [Ah Qd] (two pair, Aces and Queens)
SNiP33R9999 collected 3450 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3450 | Rake 0
Board [2d Td Qs Ac 7s]
Seat 1: Hero folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: 1.monalisa folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: CrazyHorse76 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: theghstrider (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: Mr. Wojtas (big blind) showed [Kc Kh] and lost with a pair of Kings
Seat 6: SNiP33R9999 showed [Ah Qd] and won (3450) with two pair, Aces and Queens
Seat 7: Pezibaer75 folded on the Flop
Seat 8: underdog7778 folded on the Flop
Seat 9: clarkygizz folded before Flop (didn't bet)

[bumpking]

[ QUOTE ]
Spainsoccer's ROI is 1%. That isn't good.

Tigerbeer77 has a 13% ROI at the 16s that is pretty solid.

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't good? How many people on 2+2 have better results (and a large sample size)? He's won $6828 on 3636 games ($1.88/game). With rakeback he's at about $3.88/game. If he 8 tabled, that's $44/hour ($88k/year). 12 tabling is $65/hour ($130k/year).

I'm not saying these guys are the best or anything, but they are ALL winning players, which hurts the hell out of us regular pros. I can guarantee that if these guys didn't exist, I would be a much wealthier person.

Not to call you out Blackize or anything, but your results are only $0.81/game. Like I said, to have any kind of positive number over a large sample size is impressive, and these guys have it.

I know most people here don't think they're any good, but since the vast majority of players are negative ROI, how are so many of these guys positive? What's their secret? Same coach? Same software? Support? I'm just curious to crack their secret.

-BK