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#1
10-31-2007, 12:56 PM
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Can this structure be beaten on a consistant basis?
Ok, there is a card room in town that runs 2 tournaments a day on Sat. and Sun. But I'm not quite sure if the structure renders it too much of a crap shoot to be worth going into it regularly with a profit motive. Here are the details:
Buy-in, $60 gets you t4000, rake 25% of buyin Dealer Add-on $10 gets you t1000, rake 50% of add-on Average # of entries 35-40, Payouts approx. 1st: 680 2nd: 450 3rd: 275 4th: 190 5th: 120 6th: (unofficial bubble fund $50) These are Charity games, so you have about a 50-50 shot that your dealer will be competent. Perhaps 8-12 hands per round before the first break, 6-10 hands per round after first break. Additionally, these tournaments count towards a league, so a good 30%-40% of the players are just trying to make the FT for a good point score. Other than that, figure they are your general cross-section of live recreational tourney players. 20 minute rounds as follows 25-50 50-50 50-100 75-150 100-200 150-300 break 200-400 300-600 400-800 500-1000 600-1200 700-1500 break 1000-2000 1500-3000 3000-6000, ante 500 5000-10000, ante 1000 7500-15000, ante 1000 and thats usually as far as it goes. 
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#2
10-31-2007, 01:02 PM
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Re: Can this structure be beaten on a consistant basis?
[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
-ZEN
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#3
10-31-2007, 01:08 PM
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Re: Can this structure be beaten on a consistant basis?
blind structure looks quite good, but the rake is a bad joke. at the lokal room at my town the rake is between 10 and 20% depending on the buy-in - for a 50 euro buy-in (about $70) its 12%. but the worst thing is the 50% rake for the addon.
I would save my money and look for another card-room or play online.
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#4
10-31-2007, 01:10 PM
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Re: Can this structure be beaten on a consistant basis?
IMHO, No.
Or rather, if you're good enough to overcome 40% vig in a tournament with an inferior blinds structure (compare to online tournaments) there's no real reason to play this.
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#5
10-31-2007, 01:10 PM
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Re: Can this structure be beaten on a consistant basis?
The amount of rake is a bit confusing, but this looks very beatable IMO.
Sherman Ok, now I think I understand the rake better. So this runs like a $70+20, which is pretty ridiculous. The add-on is obviously less +EV than in regular MTTs with add-ons (in fact, you may find yourself in situations where taking the add-on is -EV depending on the # of people still remaining and the number taking the add-on). In any case, it isn't anything close to the most +EV tournament, but if the players are truly terrible, it is probably beatable. Before deciding to play in an event like this I'd ask myself why I am playing. If my #1 reason is the $, I wouldn't both to show up. Online MTTs are much much more profitable. However, if money is only second (or lower) on my reasons for playing, this is probably a fine tournament to play in. For example, if you were really playing only for fun and social interaction I'd certainly consider this a +EV event. The structure isn't sooooo awful that you are essentially paying $ for such activity. If you are good you have a reasonable chance of breaking even or coming out a little ahead in the long run. So you if you like the company, enjoy the live play, and are having a little fun, I say go for it. Otherwise, just play online. Sherman
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#6
10-31-2007, 01:12 PM
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Re: Can this structure be beaten on a consistant basis?
[ QUOTE ]
The amount of rake is a bit confusing [/ QUOTE ] Seriously! Who rakes Add-ons? LOL
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#7
10-31-2007, 01:48 PM
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Re: Can this structure be beaten on a consistant basis?
There's nothing particularly odd about this structure . . . standard medium-stack tournament. Payout isn't really that great, but it is a charity event. League considerations mean that there is a core of fairly serious returning players. From what you say, you've played this tournament, so over time, you are going to become familiar with many of the players and their styles.
Winning consistently? Well, you know MTTs have a good bit of variance. The fact that this isn't a rebuy lowers the variance a bit, and the fact that there are a number of regular players give you the opportunity to take notes and prepare. Play your style and post some hands here when you get in trouble . . . no reason you can't get good enough to be a factor in this tournament every week.
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#8
11-01-2007, 09:27 AM
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Re: Can this structure be beaten on a consistant basis?
[ QUOTE ]
Buy-in, $60 gets you t4000, rake 25% of buyin Dealer Add-on $10 gets you t1000, rake 50% of add-on [/ QUOTE ] I still think you guys are getting it wrong. The way I read it: Out of the $60 entry fee the house keeps 25% = $15; $45 goes to prize pool Out of the $10 add-on fee the house keeps 50% = $5. $5 goes to prize pool. Total fee paid $70, house keeps $20, $50 goes to prizes. So the tournament is effectively $50 + $20. That's a 40% vig.
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#9
11-01-2007, 10:48 AM
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Re: Can this structure be beaten on a consistant basis?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Buy-in, $60 gets you t4000, rake 25% of buyin Dealer Add-on $10 gets you t1000, rake 50% of add-on [/ QUOTE ] I still think you guys are getting it wrong. The way I read it: Out of the $60 entry fee the house keeps 25% = $15; $45 goes to prize pool Out of the $10 add-on fee the house keeps 50% = $5. $5 goes to prize pool. Total fee paid $70, house keeps $20, $50 goes to prizes. So the tournament is effectively $50 + $20. That's a 40% vig. [/ QUOTE ] I read it as $60+15 b/c I consider pokerstars to be a 10% rake when it charges me 10+1. If it is really 50+20, I'd say that's probably not beatable at all. Sherman
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#10
11-01-2007, 12:40 PM
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Re: Can this structure be beaten on a consistant basis?
I just don't understand why you would play these, maybe you crave human contact or need live reads but if you're trying to play midstakes tourneys, i think the internet has what you need...
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