illegal to have offshore entity pay you to donate to lobbying firm ?

donkman · #1 03-02-2007, 04:16 AM

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Essentially, it is pretty transparent you are being asked to exchange funds with an illegal offshore entity and a US based lobbying organization.

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I don't agree with the "illegal offshore entity" part. But lets think of it as saying "legal offshore entity".

I am considering Full Tilts proposal. ($200 if donate $100 to PPA) Is this covered by any current U.S. legislation?

StellarWind · #2 03-02-2007, 06:50 AM

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Essentially, it is pretty transparent you are being asked to exchange funds with an illegal offshore entity and a US based lobbying organization.

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I don't agree with the "illegal offshore entity" part. But lets think of it as saying "legal offshore entity".

I am considering Full Tilts proposal. ($200 if donate $100 to PPA) Is this covered by any current U.S. legislation?

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Interesting question.

<Begin speculation>

It could be money-laundering.

Suppose a major drug smuggler is arrested. His offshore drug kingpin boss wires $100000 to the U.S. to hire the best lawyer available. The Government seizes the tainted money. Oops.

Let's try again. The kingpin wires you $110000 and you pay the lawyer, keeping $10000 for yourself as commission. That sounds like money-laundering and you could go to prison.

What does that have to do with FTP? Replace "lawyer" with "lobbyist", "drug smuggling" with "illegal gambling" and you seem to be doing a similar thing. This could be a crime, at least on paper. Of course I can't imagine them trying to prosecute it.

MiltonFriedman · #3 03-02-2007, 10:12 AM

If the "lobbying organization" is seeking to influence federal legislation on behalf of a foreign corporation, it needs to register as such .... doubt that has been done by the PPA as yet.

I sure hope they are getting good legal counsel from their high priced lobbyist advisors, becasue they are going to be under scrutiny for allegedly taking money from offshore, "illegal"sources as it is.

Skallagrim · #4 03-02-2007, 12:05 PM

As I understand the FTP offer, FTP is not giving money to the PPA, they are rewarding players who give money to the PPA by giving those players a special bonus. That is an important legal difference. Two good deeds do not make one bad one [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img].

Skallagrim

MiltonFriedman · #5 03-02-2007, 12:40 PM

I would really be cautious about what is said here.

IF the PPA is involved or becomes involved in making campaign contributions for example, then the "2 good deeds = 1 felony" applies:

It would be clearly illegal for a corporation, domestic or foreign, to reimburse people for making a contribution to a federal election campaign.

I do not know enough about the PPA activities to know if a similar rule would apply to their conduct, but I hope they have good counsel on this matter. I would also hope that FTP has good counsel of their own.

Skallagrim · #6 03-02-2007, 01:53 PM

You are right Milton, but (again this is based on my understanding of what FTP has promoted) no FTP money is going to the PPA, and players are not "reimbursed" but given a new bonus to earn. I dont think that counts. But if it were a direct re-imbursement(give $20 we pay you $20) thats a different story.

Mondogarage · #7 03-02-2007, 03:01 PM

But what about the fact the money is going "through" FTP to get to the PPA? Customer deposits to FTP, FTP passes it on to the PPA.

Even though that's not FTP's money, don't they have constructive possession of it, and the actual direct transfer of funds to the PPA is coming from FTP? Unless the transaction goes directly from the customer's bank account, or credit card, or what not, to the PPA's account, I don't see how it can be interpreted otherwise.

donkman · #8 03-03-2007, 01:35 AM

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This could be a crime (by the poker player) , at least on paper. Of course I can't imagine them trying to prosecute it.

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This is of the most interest to me. The PPA and Full Tilt have their interests.

But what of the player. Anyone else want to talk about that aspect?

PairTheBoard · #9 03-03-2007, 02:50 AM

I think this is basically the same way the PPA got most all of its original members and cashflow. Party Poker offered a bonus to anyone who joined the PPA for Free through them. I'm not sure if Party made it clear in the promotion that Party was also paying the $20 PPA Membership Fee. But I doubt if PPA was just giving the memberships away for free if they came through Party. Also, the $1-2 million in PPA's coffers came from somewhere.

PairTheBoard

Sniper · #10 03-03-2007, 07:52 AM

PTB, if memory serves me correctly, the riginal Party/PPA bonus was based on you going to the PPA website and making a donation to join. You would then input your membership number into the Party deposit screen, as a deposit bonus code, along with your next deposit, in order to activate the bonus.

I believe also at the end, Party put up an option on the withdrawal screen, for you to allocate funds from your balance to be directly donated to the PPA, rather than withdrawn.

I haven't looked at the FTP process, but Milton raises a good point...