Does selfishness ever bother you?

[Blarg]

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The problem is that while I can give an egoistic explanation to any seemingly altruistic/non-selfinterested act you can name (for example charity, jumping on a grenade, brain in the vat, revenge), it's practically impossible to prove/disprove (because we don't know nearly that well how our brains work). So you all opt for the nicer and easier option, when there's no waterproof evidence for either side?

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It's at least as supportable as arbitrarily, which, as you say, is what it is, going for the other side. Your explanation of why a guy would throw himself on a grenade is particularly weak.

[Blarg]

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Do you people seriously live your whole lives in an imaginary world where people truly care about something else besides themselves?



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You've got a bit of a bad attitude mister. If you're constantly looking for proof that people are exploiting you and that they care only about themselves then you will always see the evidence of it won't you?

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Very true.

[Blarg]

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So you all opt for the nicer and easier option, when there's no waterproof evidence for either side?

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not necessarily. why can't we evaluate it on case by case basis? also i don't think it's necessarily the easier option as there are plenty of people who would prefer to assume that people are selfish or just bad.

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True again. Further, I think it's extremely common to see monsters under every bed and boogeymen in every corner. Seeing the dark side of things makes one feel one is always making discoveries and that one is especially clever and penetratingly insightful. It can be positively addictive, which is one of the reasons gossip is so popular and can spread so quickly. People adore thinking the worst and it makes them feel better about themselves and smarter. For this, it can even be worth grasping at straws.

Actually, it's often just self-indulgence and as realizations go, often as misguided as any. It's a kid's realization masquerading as an adult's.

[daveT]

I was going to link this concept, but I think you should just search yourself.

Carl Jung talks about something called the shadow. It basically is a thing that we oppress, and we attempt to do everything in our power to not please it. If we see the shadow as our "evil" side, then our brains function to what we perceive as good. Every one has a different feeling on good or evil, and some people embrace the shadow side. Jungian analysts do not believe that the shadow is evil, just a repressed side. It is an interesting theory that holds a lot of weight. For you, lucky, your shadow side is the selfish side, and it is probably a large part of your shadow, as you are afraid of pleasuring it.

[lucksack]

If I can ALWAYS see evidence of something, then isn't there good reason to suspect that that something is true?

In such an extreme, rare cases as the grenade guy, the soldier can still do it because he wants to be a Hero, a good soldier who sacrifices his life for his comrades, country, religion and home. And in his last seconds he can enjoy knowing that he is the kind of man that he respects and will be remembered as a hero. Maybe he also believes that he will then get a (better) afterlife, or maybe his life was hardly worth living anyway in his opinion. And all usual, everyday life situations can easily be explained.

I don't know why people would prefer to assume people are selfish (or bad) unless they want to seek the truth, because living with the thought that everyone truly only cares about him/herself seems very hard for such social beings as us.

I googled that shadow-theory and it's interesting, and seems to fit with psych. egoism. I admit that things I do or think are rarely clearly selfish, and you could say that the clearly selfish things are in my shadow. But I think my seemingly unselfish thoughts have (unconscious) selfish basis too. I disrespect selfishness strongly, and probably that's why I kinda push the obviously selfish part of myself to the shadow, so my conscious mind/ego could keep respecting myself.

[Myrtle]

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If I can ALWAYS see evidence of something, then isn't there good reason to suspect that that something is true?

In such an extreme, rare cases as the grenade guy, the soldier can still do it because he wants to be a Hero, a good soldier who sacrifices his life for his comrades, country, religion and home. And in his last seconds he can enjoy knowing that he is the kind of man that he respects and will be remembered as a hero. Maybe he also believes that he will then get a (better) afterlife, or maybe his life was hardly worth living anyway in his opinion. And all usual, everyday life situations can easily be explained.

I don't know why people would prefer to assume people are selfish (or bad) unless they want to seek the truth, because living with the thought that everyone truly only cares about him/herself seems very hard for such social beings as us.

I googled that shadow-theory and it's interesting, and seems to fit with psych. egoism. I admit that things I do or think are rarely clearly selfish, and you could say that the clearly selfish things are in my shadow. But I think my seemingly unselfish thoughts have (unconscious) selfish basis too. I disrespect selfishness strongly, and probably that's why I kinda push the obviously selfish part of myself to the shadow, so my conscious mind/ego could keep respecting myself.

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Given your further responses in this thread, it would appear that you have chosen babble over reason.

[daxtrader]

What's wrong with feeling good about yourself if you do something nice for someone? Why feel guilty about such a thing? Think of it as a *reward* for doing something nice, just like guilt is a consequence of doing something bad.

I think it would be selfish if you did something for someone and you expect them to do something of similar degree for you in the future, as if they are indebted. That's being selfish.

[dragonystic]

no.

next question.

[Myrtle]

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What's wrong with feeling good about yourself if you do something nice for someone? Why feel guilty about such a thing? Think of it as a *reward* for doing something nice, just like guilt is a consequence of doing something bad.

I think it would be selfish if you did something for someone and you expect them to do something of similar degree for you in the future, as if they are indebted. That's being selfish.

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I assume that your response is intended to OP and not my response to him?

By the way, I happen to pretty much agree with what you have said above.