($60 Turbo) ryanghall inspired me to post this JJ - Page 8

Eagles · #71 11-08-2006, 12:02 AM

Pineapple,
Pushing is the easiest the way to play this hand it is not the best.

Pudge714 · #72 11-08-2006, 12:05 AM

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After durron reraises him, he'd really have to be crazy to shove anything worse than QQ, IMO, and even that's pushing it. The 2nd stack isn't going to screw with the big stack.

Ryan

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Does the big stack know that? If he knows that, can he make durron fold by shoving a wide range? Whatever, it's hugely read-based obviously, I might call here, I'm hardly ever making a standard raise.

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Wow things wrong with your thinking,
1. Villian is opening a fairly tight range here. A "laggy range" here could be like 10%.
2. Durron is reraising really tight here.
3. Even if Durron is folding JJ to the a reshove here QQ+ is a call and AK could be a call depending on the size of his range. So this bluff is getting called a lot. Congratulations if you happen to be lucky enough to catch him the 5% of the time he has JJ.

bigt439 · #73 11-08-2006, 12:06 AM

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I suspect moving allin with JJ preflop given the chip positions is going to be -EV

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i agree with your suspicion (though, citanul said he would move in when i showed him this hand)

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Well put him on an actual range and do the math, you were there, you said he was LAG so he is folding 95% of the time right?

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pineapple888 · #74 11-08-2006, 12:59 AM

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After durron reraises him, he'd really have to be crazy to shove anything worse than QQ, IMO, and even that's pushing it. The 2nd stack isn't going to screw with the big stack.

Ryan

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Does the big stack know that? If he knows that, can he make durron fold by shoving a wide range? Whatever, it's hugely read-based obviously, I might call here, I'm hardly ever making a standard raise.

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Wow things wrong with your thinking,
1. Villian is opening a fairly tight range here. A "laggy range" here could be like 10%.
2. Durron is reraising really tight here.
3. Even if Durron is folding JJ to the a reshove here QQ+ is a call and AK could be a call depending on the size of his range. So this bluff is getting called a lot. Congratulations if you happen to be lucky enough to catch him the 5% of the time he has JJ.

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1.) Oh, you weren't there but you are psychic? Good to know.
2.) Um, that's the discussion we're having.
3.) I'm not talking about what is right, I'M TALKING ABOUT WHAT VILLAIN WOULD DO. HERE'S A NEWS FLASH, VILLAINS DO NOT PLAY OPTIMALLY 100% OF THE TIME.

I'm done with this thread. Me and cit vs. the world, I guess.

bigt439 · #75 11-08-2006, 01:26 AM

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After durron reraises him, he'd really have to be crazy to shove anything worse than QQ, IMO, and even that's pushing it. The 2nd stack isn't going to screw with the big stack.

Ryan

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Does the big stack know that? If he knows that, can he make durron fold by shoving a wide range? Whatever, it's hugely read-based obviously, I might call here, I'm hardly ever making a standard raise.

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Wow things wrong with your thinking,
1. Villian is opening a fairly tight range here. A "laggy range" here could be like 10%.
2. Durron is reraising really tight here.
3. Even if Durron is folding JJ to the a reshove here QQ+ is a call and AK could be a call depending on the size of his range. So this bluff is getting called a lot. Congratulations if you happen to be lucky enough to catch him the 5% of the time he has JJ.

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1.) Oh, you weren't there but you are psychic? Good to know.
2.) Um, that's the discussion we're having.
3.) I'm not talking about what is right, I'M TALKING ABOUT WHAT VILLAIN WOULD DO. HERE'S A NEWS FLASH, VILLAINS DO NOT PLAY OPTIMALLY 100% OF THE TIME.

I'm done with this thread. Me and cit vs. the world, I guess.

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great attitude... will help your game a lot. but i suppose youre making enough money that you dont need to improve...

chok1 · #76 11-08-2006, 01:31 AM

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Villian was one of the very few clueful lags I see in SnGs. I'm not sure his style was the best but I thought he was playing very well for an aggro player.

edit: I think there are 3 reasonable lines here. please try to comment on each of them in your replies:

1) call pre, c/c, c/c, c/f; cons to this: he may put us on OESD that whiffed and try to push us off the best hand on river with ace high
2) call pre, c/r flop, fold to allin; cons to this: if he just calls what are you doing oop on the turn?
3) reraise pre, fold to allin: cons to this: we sometimes fold the best hand to AK or AQ or TT, also what do we do if he just calls on this board? stick it in?

edit2: another line:

4) lead flop, fold to a raise. question: what's turn plan if called?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (5 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

MP (t652)
Button (t1290)
SB (t1715)
Hero (t4268)
UTG (t5575)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG raises to t300, 2 folds, SB calls t250, Hero calls t200.

Flop: (t900) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG bets t600, SB folds, Hero calls t600.

Turn: (t2100) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets t1000, Hero calls t1000.

River: (t4100) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks expecting a check behind, but planning to fold.

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would this be a correct play if it were a $5.50

Pudge714 · #77 11-08-2006, 01:43 AM

LOL at the following chain of events which plays out dozens of times.
1. Pineapple posts something stupid.
2. People explain their reasoning
3. Pineapple gets incredibly defensive claims he is done with this thread and everyone else is wrong.

If you want strategy I will post this
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Wow things wrong with your thinking,
1. Villian is opening a fairly tight range here. A "laggy range" here could be like 10%.
2. Durron is reraising really tight here.
3. Even if Durron is folding JJ to the a reshove here QQ+ is a call and AK could be a call depending on the size of his range. So this bluff is getting called a lot. Congratulations if you happen to be lucky enough to catch him the 5% of the time he has JJ.

1.) Oh, you weren't there but you are psychic? Good to know.
2.) Um, that's the discussion we're having.
3.) I'm not talking about what is right, I'M TALKING ABOUT WHAT VILLAIN WOULD DO. HERE'S A NEWS FLASH, VILLAINS DO NOT PLAY OPTIMALLY 100% OF THE TIME.

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1. I'm guessing his range obviously I don't know it that is what you attempt to do playing poker put someone on a range.

2. That isn't the discussion though. His range doesn't go from really wide to insanely tight by adding JJ or TT or AQ into his range. Unless you are suggesting Durron squeeze really light his preflop range is tight here.

3. If you are playing with villians who 4bet light to try and get you to fold after putting 1/3rd of your stack in you game select good.

durron597 · #78 11-08-2006, 01:50 AM

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would this be a correct play if it were a $5.50

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How often do you see aggressive players that play well at a $5.50?

In a $5.50, definitely bet the flop, no question. The reason that I didn't here is because I was afraid of getting floated by overcards and having the pot taken away from me by the river.

edit: and I didn't want to get bluff-raised

chok1 · #79 11-08-2006, 01:59 AM

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would this be a correct play if it were a $5.50

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How often do you see aggressive players that play well at a $5.50?

In a $5.50, definitely bet the flop, no question. The reason that I didn't here is because I was afraid of getting floated by overcards and having the pot taken away from me by the river.

edit: and I didn't want to get bluff-raised

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i play 5.50's and if i did bet the flop can i be certain im beat and fold if villian raises? i realize villians style must be taken into consideration. but let's say you're playing someone at my level who doesnt show many hands and plays one to 2 hands each orbit varying from raising and limping. what then? easy push?

durron597 · #80 11-08-2006, 02:01 AM

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would this be a correct play if it were a $5.50

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How often do you see aggressive players that play well at a $5.50?

In a $5.50, definitely bet the flop, no question. The reason that I didn't here is because I was afraid of getting floated by overcards and having the pot taken away from me by the river.

edit: and I didn't want to get bluff-raised

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i play 5.50's and if i did bet the flop can i be certain im beat and fold if villian raises? i realize villians style must be taken into consideration. but let's say you're playing someone at my level who doesnt show many hands and plays one to 2 hands each orbit varying from raising and limping. what then? easy push?

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this hand obviously depends on your specific opponent at that level, your questions are too general for me to answer