Overs buttons

[Stu Pidasso]

I have been offered overs buttons before but never accepted them. Last night was the exception. I was hot right out of the gate and built a nice stack of chips. I figured "what the hell" and asked for an over button.

For anyone who doesn't know what playing "overs" means heres a definition:
A side betting arrangement where when the only players left in a hand are those involved in the overs, they are able to bet at a higher limit against each other than normally allowed

In our case at the beginning of a street if the only players left in the hand had overs buttons, all the bets are then doubled(i.e. 5-10 becomes 10-20 for the rest of the hand) The game I was in was 10 handed and about 5 of us had overs buttons. I started to think about what adjustments I should make to my game.

Usually we did not go to overs until the river. Never on the flop and seldom on the turn. With the bets being substantially higher on the river, the increased implied odds would dictate that I could play more speculative hands provided there were already a couple of people with overs buttons already in the hand. It also means some fish types would be making correct calls on earlier streets which would otherwise be incorrect if we weren't playing with overs buttons.

What do you folks think of overs buttons? Can a good player use it to a substantial advantage? Does it help the fish types more?

Stu

[jba]

one question:

if the only players left are players with overs, is the rule that they *can* bet double or they *must*? Is it like when fourth street pairs in stud?

[Stu Pidasso]

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if the only players left are players with overs, is the rule that they *can* bet double or they *must*? Is it like when fourth street pairs in stud?

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If the street starts with just players who have overs buttons the bets must be doubled; there is no choice. If the street starts with at least one player who does not have an overs button the bets are the normal size for that entire street(even if the non overs player folds at the first bet or checks out).

Stu

[what23]

do u hafta play "overs" if all of the holders r the only ones left or can u decide each hand? i wouldn't mind playing if the competition was soft although i don't see the fish wanting to use them.

[Stu Pidasso]

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do u hafta play "overs" if all of the holders r the only ones left or can u decide each hand? i wouldn't mind playing if the competition was soft although i don't see the fish wanting to use them.

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Its my understanding that if you have an overs button in front of you and the only other players involved in the hand(at the beginning of the street) also have overs buttons in front of them, then you "hafta" play overs.

In that game I found myself sometimes calling a flop bet instead of raising. I did not want to risk knocking out the only player with out an overs button on the flop.

Stu

[*TT*]

Stu:

The problem with playing overs is that the size of the pot is now cut in 1/2 compared to the size of your bet or raise. I generally wouldn't recommend playing overs because its usually not to the players advantage - unless you feel like gambling.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[DeathDonkey]

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I generally wouldn't recommend playing overs because its usually not to the players advantage - unless you feel like gambling.


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This is way way way untrue. You get to make decisions for larger amounts of money than normal against players whom you supposedly make better decisions than.

OP: tend to go further with drawing hands - for instance a gutshot on the turn when you are only getting 9:1 would be a fold, except if you can get a double sized bet in on the river your implied odds might turn it into a call. Basically it makes the game a bit more like NL.

-DeathDonkey

[*TT*]

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I generally wouldn't recommend playing overs because its usually not to the players advantage - unless you feel like gambling.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is way way way untrue. You get to make decisions for larger amounts of money than normal against players whom you supposedly make better decisions than.

OP: tend to go further with drawing hands - for instance a gutshot on the turn when you are only getting 9:1

[/ QUOTE ]

I used to feel the same as you Donkey, but the more brain power I put into this the less I like the idea of playing overs (I have never been in a situation where overs button is permitted so I admit I have no real world application). Standard situation hero raises preflop, 2 callers one of whom has an overs button. 7.5 SB to the flop. Hero bets, middle player folds and now the overs kick in. If the stakes were 5/10 and the agreement was to double the stakes the effective pot size is now 4.5/1. You now are restricted in some of your actions. Its even more magnifided when the overs are HU and there was no pre-flop raise, it might be in the neighborhood of a 1.5:1 pot size at most.

Please show some applied examples where playing overs allows additional advantages, I could be thinking incorrectly and I'm open minded.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[bernie]

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[ QUOTE ]
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I generally wouldn't recommend playing overs because its usually not to the players advantage - unless you feel like gambling.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is way way way untrue. You get to make decisions for larger amounts of money than normal against players whom you supposedly make better decisions than.

OP: tend to go further with drawing hands - for instance a gutshot on the turn when you are only getting 9:1

[/ QUOTE ]

I used to feel the same as you Donkey, but the more brain power I put into this the less I like the idea of playing overs (I have never been in a situation where overs button is permitted so I admit I have no real world application). Standard situation hero raises preflop, 2 callers one of whom has an overs button. 7.5 SB to the flop. Hero bets, middle player folds and now the overs kick in. If the stakes were 5/10 and the agreement was to double the stakes the effective pot size is now 4.5/1. You now are restricted in some of your actions. Its even more magnifided when the overs are HU and there was no pre-flop raise, it might be in the neighborhood of a 1.5:1 pot size at most.

Please show some applied examples where playing overs allows additional advantages, I could be thinking incorrectly and I'm open minded.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

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Slavic used to be more up on the overs deal. They play overs all the time where I play. It does benefit better players. More-so if their are alot of player playing overs. Much less so if there's only maybe 3 players doing it. Especially if its double the limit. They usually play only 1/2 limit higher. 20-40 with 30-60 overs.

To really take advantage, you have to realize when it will likely be an overs situation postflop or when you can make it a likely overs situation. Most players don't make adjustments for overs, they just like playing with more possible money. Some people it's a penis extension.

Sometimes they'll play with 40-80 overs. Which, if enough people are playing overs, makes it almost a mini blind situation. Which also can really suck if the majority of them are playing overs. In fact, if you're the only one not with an overs button, if it's a double limit overs, you may want to find a different game. But the more players that are playing overs with you, the better since it gives you more potential opportunities to play more hands. The more hands the better player gets to play, the more he can earn.

b

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]

Slavic used to be more up on the overs deal. They play overs all the time where I play. It does benefit better players. More-so if their are alot of player playing overs. Much less so if there's only maybe 3 players doing it. Especially if its double the limit. They usually play only 1/2 limit higher. 20-40 with 30-60 overs.

To really take advantage, you have to realize when it will likely be an overs situation postflop or when you can make it a likely overs situation. Most players don't make adjustments for overs, they just like playing with more possible money. Some people it's a penis extension.

Sometimes they'll play with 40-80 overs. Which, if enough people are playing overs, makes it almost a mini blind situation. Which also can really suck if the majority of them are playing overs. In fact, if you're the only one not with an overs button, if it's a double limit overs, you may want to find a different game. But the more players that are playing overs with you, the better since it gives you more potential opportunities to play more hands. The more hands the better player gets to play, the more he can earn.

b

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Great insight. The only time I knew of overs being permitted I was a total neophyte and they only permitted two overs buttons in the game. a 1/2 limit overs structure I like, and I also like the NL overs structure. Its when the structure is 2x the limit that I have a hard time accepting as being truly advantageous, but I can see how it might be good if 4 or so players all had overs buttons.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]