Music- Why the hell can't we have more Bob Dylans?

[Hey_Porter]

The "truest lyrics" thread got me thinking about this, something that I've thought about several times over the years, growing up and listening to music. Why haven't we seen another Bob Dylan? Or another Paul Simon? Or another one of the 100s of influential and timeless artists of the 60s? Is that the end? Are we EVER going to see musical genius that lives up to that level?

I look at the artists of my lifetime, and those that will be remembered by those who won't even be born for another 20 years are few (and this is where discussion might arise). And those that will be remembered, won't necessarily be remembered for their musical genius, and their ability to relate to almost anybody. Arguably the most revolutionary music in the past 20 years has been grunge. Does Kurt Cobain REALLY compare to Bob Dylan? It was a different form, to be sure, and maybe that's enough to distinguish, but I'm a lyrics kind of guy, so I'm not gonna fall for that. Think of the 60s/70s. Bob Dylan. Joni Mitchell. James Taylor. Paul Simon. John Lennon. Elton John. Warren Zevon. Neil Young. Robbie Robertson. Leonard Cohen. Gram Parsons. What modern artists compare, even minutely? I have some that I consider quality, and I know some people will throw some out there, but I just don't think anything of today (which in my mind I characterize as the 90s to present) compares. Is it the dumbing down of society?

In short, are there REALLY any artists of today that I will play for my kids as "great music," and that they will hold on to and listen to for the rest of their lives? Or will I simply, and unapologetically, be forced to stick with Bob Dylan, Paul Simon, and Neil Young?

[Mingdu]

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Bob Dylan. Joni Mitchell. James Taylor. Paul Simon. John Lennon. Elton John. Warren Zevon. Neil Young. Robbie Robertson. Leonard Cohen. Gram Parsons.

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4 Canadians ... and Elton John didn't write lyrics

[samsdmf]

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The "truest lyrics" thread got me thinking about this, something that I've thought about several times over the years, growing up and listening to music. Why haven't we seen another Bob Dylan? Or another Paul Simon? Or another one of the 100s of influential and timeless artists of the 60s? Is that the end? Are we EVER going to see musical genius that lives up to that level?

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I disagree, I think we are seeing music of that level of genius- its just not being appreciated fully yet. These are not really bands I am a fan of, but 90s-00s bands I feel may be looked at in future as seminal:

Coldplay
Radiohead
U2
Arcade Fire
Beck

[pryor15]

i can, off the top of my head, think of a couple of artists who are shoo-ins for the all-time great label (but remember that these things take time)

Thom Yorke & Radiohead
Jeff Tweedy & Wilco
Elliot Smith
Beck

but i think what you'll see instead is a lot more smaller artists who, because of the rise of indie music, aren't necessarily the "voices of their generation", simply because they don't get enough exposure from the major markets and radio. still, when you step back and look at their output over a 20 year period, it'll quite possibly blow your mind. a list like this could include (assuming such artists continue on a path):

Andrew Bird
Joanna Newsom
Sufjan Stevens
Arcade Fire
Red House Painters & Sun Kill Moon
Belle & Sebastian
TV on the Radio
The Flaming Lips

and there's more, obviously. i think what you've got now is really a stunning amount of diverse music that incorporates pretty much anything you can think of. In terms total quality, you could argue that 2002-2007 is on par with the best 5 year spans ever, maybe even better

[TimWillTell]

I think the Milli Vanilli scam shows best in what direction the popmusic went and how the Dylans and Simons of today absolutly don't have a change of becoming a hughe succes.

[odellthurman]

Some great musicians today:

Steve Earle
Willie Nelson (still going, but more of a Dylan contemporary)
Jay Farrar - also of Uncle Tupelo and Son Volt
Lucinda Williams
R.E.M.


But the answer to why we haven't seen "another Bob Dylan" is because we'll never see another Bob Dylan. He is incomparable. Other musicians will come along, but no one will replace or equal Bob Dylan.

[Blarg]

Yes, music has always been prepackaged to a great extent, but now it's even focus-grouped, and we're on a tighter level of corporate shaping and guidance than we've ever been. Going to popular music now to get exposed to the best of what's out there is pretty much like going to the Nielsen ratings to see what the best t.v. is. You might get something good slipping in, but that would be a big stroke of luck.

I see OP talks about his frame of reference being the 90's up, which throws things off a bit, as the people he is considering all made their names before, sometimes well before, the 90's and arguably did their best work then too.

If we broaden things up a little, we should consider people like Lennon, Springsteen, and David Byrne in his Talking Heads days.

I think, as a lyrics guy myself, that OP is also narrowing down his possibilities for appreciation of what lyrics do, and thus his chance to recognize great lyrics.

Some musicians have their music as a key, indispensable part of the overall effect of their songs, working in concert with the lyrics; others, like Dylan, have lyrics that stand out far above their playing and singing and could probably be plopped on top of completely different music and still come out whole and none the worse for it. Sometimes, to me at least, other musicians do much more with such music and lyrics than their author. For me, Hendrix's All Along the Watchtower is a perfect example of someone doing much more with a song than Dylan's indifferent and sometimes grating rendering. These latter are storytellers first and foremost. It is easy to understand the linear way their songs reveal themselves and the straightforward part lyrics play in the process.

The former are people like David Byrne, enormous talents whose lyrics are so particularly integrated in to the very particular type of music around them that they often could not be removed from the music without losing their whole point. A lot of the dialogue of the lyrics with the listener demands interplay and sometimes multiple counterpoints with the music they're a part of. At that, they're genius. Torn from it, they make a minimum of sense and tell only a small part of the song's story. The lyric that doesn't have a fixed, easy co-existence with a song's music may be very ambitious, clever, and funny, but it's much harder to recognize as such. It's a different kind of lyric for a different kind of music. And as a part of an integrated whole rather than almost a whole complete in and of itself, this kind of good lyric is harder to recognize and credit. But its virtues are still there.

[MrMon]

Even Bob Dylan couldn't be Bob Dylan today. No record exec would give him the time of day.

It's not the artists, it's the industry. And it's the attitude that artists only release one album every 3 years or so. What's up with that? The Beatles released more music from 1964 to 1966 than some of today's artists will release in 20 years. It's tough to become a legend with only 3 albums. That makes you Boston.

[Blarg]

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Even Bob Dylan couldn't be Bob Dylan today. No record exec would give him the time of day.

It's not the artists, it's the industry. And it's the attitude that artists only release one album every 3 years or so. What's up with that? The Beatles released more music from 1964 to 1966 than some of today's artists will release in 20 years. It's tough to become a legend with only 3 albums. That makes you Boston.

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Or look at Elton John when he was first coming up and still with Bernie Taupin(back when he was good, in my view).

Back in those days, George Harrison marveled at the incredible pace of Elton John's output, saying something on the order of, "He's amazing. I go to the toilet and come back and find he's put out three albums."

[AceLuby]

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In short, are there REALLY any artists of today that I will play for my kids as "great music," and that they will hold on to and listen to for the rest of their lives? Or will I simply, and unapologetically, be forced to stick with Bob Dylan, Paul Simon, and Neil Young?

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In short, no. The music industry is exactly that, an industry, and right now (and pretty much since the 90's) music like that just doesn't sell fast like the poppy stuff now. It's the same reason why you hear the same 100 songs for a genre anywhere in the US. You get to listen to what they want to sell and what they think will sell the fastest to get the best turnaround.

For anything truely great IMO you have to go outside the mainstream and literally find it. Live local music has been where I've found true lyrical gems.