The New York Back Raise...25/50 Live

[AtlBrvs4Life]

Thanks. I've been trying to work on winning big pots when i get AA vs. KK. Now I know.

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
Reminds me a hand I recently played in a 20/40 NL live game. I limped AA UTG, MP (LAG) raises to 120, 2 LP callers, BB calls with QQ (I later found out), and I reraise to 440. MP raiser is confused and pushes (he covers my 3.5k). Everyone folds, including the BB with QQ and I make a no-brainer call. He flips KK and doubles me up nicely.

The last 3 times I've picked up AA in EP, I've done that and have won 3 decent sized to large sized pots.

[/ QUOTE ]
Good thing you played it like this, because if you had just raised and then had KK reraise and then QQ cold-call, and then you push and KK call and QQ fold it would have been so much different.

[dlpnyc21]

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For the record it's called 2nd hand Low.

I don't think you New Yorkers should be trying to take credit for a move you most certainly did not invent.

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lol, didn't tj cloutier write about 2nd hand low in his book? that was the first poker book i ever read, and i seem to recall that, although i could be wrong...

[amuze]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Reminds me a hand I recently played in a 20/40 NL live game. I limped AA UTG, MP (LAG) raises to 120, 2 LP callers, BB calls with QQ (I later found out), and I reraise to 440. MP raiser is confused and pushes (he covers my 3.5k). Everyone folds, including the BB with QQ and I make a no-brainer call. He flips KK and doubles me up nicely.

The last 3 times I've picked up AA in EP, I've done that and have won 3 decent sized to large sized pots.

[/ QUOTE ]
Good thing you played it like this, because if you had just raised and then had KK reraise and then QQ cold-call, and then you push and KK call and QQ fold it would have been so much different.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, I've had someone fold KK in that situation when I had pushed AI. So no, not necessarily.

Anyways, I was just pointing out to the OP in a subtle way that he's most likely facing AA/KK and that it's not really a special move you only see in NY.

[ceczar]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyways, I was just pointing out to the OP in a subtle way that he's most likely facing AA/KK and that it's not really a special move you only see in NY.

[/ QUOTE ]

the OP never claimed it's unique to NY or originated there, just that it seems to be more prevalent there. and there's a reasonable amount of evidence that it does occur more often in NY, probably for good reason as well. (and in NY it's definitely not the case that AA/KK are >50% likely in this spot)

also, "2nd hand low"?? i don't get it. someone want to explain why that term makes sense?

[TheWorstPlayer]

the 'first hand' is the raiser the 'second hand' is the caller who plays 'low' by calling rather than raising. it originates from bridge (or maybe whist) where there are two teams playing against each other. there, the second hand plays 'low' (a low card) so that his partner, the fourth hand, can capture the third players high card rather than the third player capturing the second player's high card.

[aislephive]

Why would you ever make this "backraise" with QQ if you're going to fold to a shove.

[fukkeneh]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Anyways, I was just pointing out to the OP in a subtle way that he's most likely facing AA/KK and that it's not really a special move you only see in NY.

[/ QUOTE ]

the OP never claimed it's unique to NY or originated there, just that it seems to be more prevalent there. and there's a reasonable amount of evidence that it does occur more often in NY, probably for good reason as well. (and in NY it's definitely not the case that AA/KK are >50% likely in this spot)

also, "2nd hand low"?? i don't get it. someone want to explain why that term makes sense?

[/ QUOTE ]

im going to need more rebuttle please.

obv i was joking.

edit : and david, i read it in TJ's book too.

[dlpnyc21]

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Why would you ever make this "backraise" with QQ if you're going to fold to a shove.

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because there is 7kish in dead $ in the middle and i'd like to take it down preflop without showdown? what am i missing here?

dlpnyc21

[PartyGirlUK]

I think you're missing that when you rr w QQ he's either folding or shoving, so your raise/fold line turns your hand into a bluff and puts you in a horrible situation should he shove.