Missing bets and underplaying your hand in razz

[Jigsaws]

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At small limits Razz online everyone sucks and will keep you honest if you play your hand straightforward. At middleish limits nobody ever believes anyone and keeps them honest. There's just no point in calling/checking with your 2345K on 5th street against a J97 board to make it look like you have a 3card hand. If they're bad enough to bet J97 then they're bad enough to call a raise and often go to showdown unimproved because LOL HE MIGHT BE BLUFFING.

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Hell no, this would be a horrible spot to slowplay. This spot is one of the major moneymakers in todays Razz games.

TT: I think pumping 4th is fine too, but most people would not raise A247 if I bet into them there, though they'll bet like 80% of the time if I check to them. So usually only one bet goes in, but check-calling adds a bit of deception. I'll usually get an extra big bet in on later streets if we both catch good, while a lot of people would just call down if or check to me if I had kept the lead.

What about example 1? Seems like a nice example of letting villain "catch up", no?

[*TT*]

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At small limits Razz online everyone sucks and will keep you honest if you play your hand straightforward. At middleish limits nobody ever believes anyone and keeps them honest. There's just no point in calling/checking with your 2345K on 5th street against a J97 board to make it look like you have a 3card hand. If they're bad enough to bet J97 then they're bad enough to call a raise and often go to showdown unimproved because LOL HE MIGHT BE BLUFFING.

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Hell no, this would be a horrible spot to slowplay. This spot is one of the major moneymakers in todays Razz games.

TT: I think pumping 4th is fine too, but most people would not raise A247 if I bet into them there, though they'll bet like 80% of the time if I check to them. So usually only one bet goes in, but check-calling adds a bit of deception. I'll usually get an extra big bet in on later streets if we both catch good, while a lot of people would just call down if or check to me if I had kept the lead.

What about example 1? Seems like a nice example of letting villain "catch up", no?

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You are leaving money on the table.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[Jigsaws]

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You are leaving money on the table.

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If you could explain yourself, that would be nice. Do you suggest check-raising 4th?

[2461Badugi]

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BTW please stop playing 5/10 2-7

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No problem: I'll be haunting 2/4 unless I pull out of this downswing soon. As of today I'm below 500 big bets for 5/10 on Stars, and 2/3 of my br in limbo. Whee!

[betgo]

I will look through and find some examples from my play. I am mainly talking about 3rd and 4th street where if you limp/call or check/call your hand appears weaker than it is.

I am not talking about a major slow play, but rather about not pushing a fairly small edge.

Conversely, you can also put in loose raises or reraises on these streets to represent a stronger hand.

The loss that you get from not playing the hand quite optimally is made up for by the deception of making your opponent think you are weaker or stronger than you are and confusing him about your hole cards.

My main game is no limit holdem. In that it is important to mix up how you play hands to make it harder for opponents to read your hand and read how it may have connected with the flop. Razz is a simple game, but being able to read your opponent's hole cards is important, and there are advantages to making it hard to read yours.

[*TT*]

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You are leaving money on the table.

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If you could explain yourself, that would be nice. Do you suggest check-raising 4th?

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1) If you are 100% positive he will bet if checked to, then 85% of the time he will call down a c/r - never believing you. Therefore you are leaving money on the table.

2) In the event it checks through you are leaving money on the table. Many players will check behind with an equally strong board because they become suspicious on 4th street. Or they are willing to call with a strog board but in reality have a weak hand and they are afraid to be on 4th.

In short, the line only works when the villain doesn't think, always bets when checked to, is a calling station, and is not likely to raise himself. And even then you should be check-raising - get your money in there and gamble!

However if the value of your hands were closer, or your up against a very tough opponent who can read the strength of a c/r then a check-call is perfectly reasonable. But lets face it - both a c/c and a c/r are only possible in "perfect storm" situations.... the vast majority of the time you should be betting; you never know when the villain might raise lightly, allowing you to re-pop him!

Rather than underplaying on 3d or 4th you should be thinking about other opportunities such as raising a worse board on 5th street when the values are close because you might get a free card on 6th street - aka a free showdown. You also gain if you catch a baby card on 6th street, it <u>might</u> force a fold with the better hand.

The right place to miss a bet is on 6th street if you have a lock on the board, and you think your opponent will fold to a bet (this usually works really well if the value of your hand is disguised, allowing you to check behind on 6th street but you know he is bad). By checking you may induce a bet - allowing you to raise 7th, or more likely he will call a suspicious bet on 7th when he might have folded otherwise.

Lucky me - I have to run out again, I hope the above made sense. No time to proof read. ugh.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[Jigsaws]

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In short, the line only works when the villain doesn't think, always bets when checked to, is a calling station, and is not likely to raise himself.

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Sounds about right for the typical Razz player! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[SCSTWG]

In a lower limit game I play it aggressive and do not get tricky. A lot of these players are playing their cards more than they are playing your board. If they they have a shot at an 8 or better they are typically calling no matter what you have and what action you take. As you move up limits, it makes sense that deception may have greater value.