JC Tran Controversy at Foxwoods

[TheDarkDefender]

The rule is simple and clear: you CANNOT fold the hand in this situation. It does not matter that the dumbass "intentionally" tried to muck his hand. He didn't have that option. And he didn't pull his hand back from the muck. The dealer, appropriately, did. I'm not sure what the griping is about. This was a bad beat. Pure and simple. Nothing more, nothing less.

[LerkEr]

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Very interesting...check it out:

http://www.cardplayer.com/tv/29329

I can't believe what I just saw the dealer do. Is that procedure in most major circuit tournaments? I know that the all-in player most flip over his hand to protect against collusion but it should at least be ruled dead.

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It was the right decision, when heads up and all-in cards must be turned face up. I saw the clip and even though it WAS obvious the guy was stupidly trying to fold the ruling was correct.

Matt Savage




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[moorbr02]

the only reason, the dealers action or the floor decision were questioned, is because jc lost the hand. jc said nothing when the dealer turned the cards up. he said nothing, in fact he watched like it was business as usual as the dealer burned and turned the turn card and said nothing as he burned and turned the river card. he only got upset and blamed his loss on dealer error when he was ran down. the hand didn't touch the muck, the muck was on the other side of the dealer. the hand was retrievable and properly exposed, per tda rules. and how could any floor person rule otherwise? he got the story, the player was all in, he threw his cards across the table, the dealer exposed them as the rules state, the turn and river were dealt, his hand was the best hand. how do you gather those facts and tell him he's out of the tournament?

[Hooked on Fish]

Matt,

I recently was at a final table of a tournament where a simialr situation occurred, but with a twist. The seat 10 player moved all in, and after some deliberation, seat 1 called the all in. The rest of the table slowly folded their hands, and when it got back to seat 10, he slid both of his cards face down halfway into the muck (the cards were halfway sticking out and could be retrieved). Seat 10 did not see that seat 1 had put the chips out to call the all in, and the dealer did say seat 1 had called, but seat 10 claimed he did not hear this (perhaps the dealer's head was turned toward seat 1?), or see the chips in front of seat 10 (blind situation because the dealer is in the way), or on and on with the different reasons. For this tournament, the hand was declared dead and seat 1 won the pot (seat 1 had A/K, and seat 10 claimed to have jacks, so seat 1 would have won the pot).

So, let me get this scenario straight: When all action is complete and two players are heads up in an all in situation, even if the cards are in the muck but can be retrieved (as they were in the above scenario), they must be retrived and turned face up and the cards run out so the winner can be awarded the pot?

Thanks

[RR]

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So, let me get this scenario straight: When all action is complete and two players are heads up in an all in situation, even if the cards are in the muck but can be retrieved (as they were in the above scenario), they must be retrived and turned face up and the cards run out so the winner can be awarded the pot?


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Yes. The rule is turn over the cards, not turn over the cards if you want to.

[ptartaglio]

I definitely see your point. I also didn't think about how it affects other players in the tournament.