Bluff #1 (FR, live, 10-25)

[Post-Oak]

Villain #1 is UTG. He is a bad calling station preflop. He is better after the flop, but still pretty much a calling station. He's not horrible, except when he tilts. He just calls too much (especially preflop). He views me as tight.

Villain #2 is a new player who is unknown to me.

Blinds are $10-$25. Both villains have $5-6K stacks and I cover.

Villain 1 limps UTG (he has a very wide range here), there are 2 more limpers, Villain 2 limps in the cutoff, and I limp on the button with 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB completes, BB checks.

Flop (7 players, $175)
3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Blinds check, Villain #1 bets $125, folded to Villain #2 who calls, I make it $550. Blinds fold, both Villains call pretty quickly!

Turn (3 players, $1825) 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Both villains check. At this point, I still think Villain #1 can have a weak hand like top pair. He is a station. Villain #2 is kind of worrying me with his overcall. Maybe he is on the straight draw too, or maybe he has a hand like top two? I suppose it is also possible that he is slow playing a set, because there is no flush draw out there.

I check (?)

River (3 players, $1825) Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Both players again check! Villain #1 is bad and probably just has a ten. I am not sure what kind of hand Villain #2 can be playing like this. If he hit his straight draw, I think he would bet here with the nuts (of course he could have whiffed with the same draw I had). It's possible he does have two pair or a set here, and didn't bet because he put me on a straight draw after I checked the turn. Or maybe he is just another station who doesn't realize how bad overcalling on the flop is with a marginal hand.

I bet $1600.

[Apathy]

Meh, your bluffing into two bad players at least one of which you describe as a serious station. At least the station has to act before the other guy but Id still give up.

[GTL]

no one in there right mind is gonna say this is good because of your description of the villain as a station.

[Post-Oak]

[ QUOTE ]
no one in there right mind is gonna say this is good because of your description of the villain as a station.

[/ QUOTE ]

He is a station, but he is not insane. But yes, he is bad, and this must be taken into consideration.

[Apathy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
no one in there right mind is gonna say this is good because of your description of the villain as a station.

[/ QUOTE ]

He is a station, but he is not insane. But yes, he is bad, and this must be taken into consideration.

[/ QUOTE ]

Im not sure what you want us to say then? I mean its really obvious what they have and you should know better then us how often they will both fold, it doesnt lok good from the action and what you told us though

[Dale Dough]

Meh. If you think a) he has top pair and b) you didn't try to push him off it on the turn, why would he fold now? As for Villain 2, we have nine combos for top two, six if 1 does have top pair, and nine for the set, seven if 1 has top pair. there are 12 J9's and 9 97's. And he played passively on the flop, AND still checks the turn. Does he expect you to bet 100% here, given that your raise already got called in two spots? That seems to lessen the possibility of a strong made hand, IMO.

That said, weakness on the final two streets. [censored] it, I'm firing. I have recently discovered that good opponents tend to see through that [censored], but this is live 10-25. Bombs away.

[Cali4niaRaisin]

If you think he's a station, I don't like it. Especially after you checked the turn...Plus, the pot is 1825 so by firing 1600 this play needs to work A LOT, and I'm not sure if it does givin your description of villian.

It seems clear that both villians aren't very strong at the river. You checked behind on the turn and so probably expect you do do the same on the river and so they will likely lead river for value if they had a hand (i.e. J9..). Kinda read dependent, but given your description 1600 doesn't seem +EV

[Flatlanman3]

i dont like this river bet against stations, just like everyone else said. If you bet like 750-1250 on the turn it affords you a much better river bluffing oppurtunity. Either way, ur probably better just letting this one go and having villian #1 show you like T-2 os

[Post-Oak]

The station thought for about 20 seconds, then folded. Villain #2 insta-mucked and I took it down. The station looked kind of annoyed at how fast Villain 2 folded, and he said "I would have called if he wasn't behind me." This probably wasn't even true, considering it was a regular occurence for him to hold up the game for several minutes while contemplating a big river call, only to finally show a horrible hand (like middle pair) and say "I'll let you take it this time". So 20 seconds was a pretty quick fold for him.

The only reason I bet is because the Q completed a straight draw, and that is what I figured they would (correctly) put me on given the turn check and large (for live play, not in relation to the pot) river bet. However, this was probably giving the station way too much credit, as he wouldn't understand that a two pair hand was simply a bluff catcher here. He would just think "I have two pair" and make the crying call.

I thought some people might disagree with my bet based on the possible holdings of Villain #2, but most people are just assuming that he is just another station. I still don't know if he sucked or not, or what type of hand he overcalled on the flop with. For all I know, he layed down two pair or a set. Or he is a donkey with AT.

[Steem_Machine]

EDIT: From the results posted, it sounds like player 1 was worse than described postflop as well. Glad it worked out for ya though.

New poster here, so go easy on me if you think I'm dead wrong [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]. I'm here to learn

I'd actually like to talk about the flop action first if I may. I would have preferred a call on the flop for a few reasons. First and foremost is the fact that you described one of your opponents as a station (albeit more so preflop). Needless to say, this greatly reduces your fold equity (I'm sure you know this, just thinking out loud). You also have the type of hand that you don't really want to isolate with here. Add to this the fact that if one of your opponents actually had a big hand, they would likely come back over the top and move you off a good draw when you could have hit for cheap and won a big pot.

Anyway, as played, I think you have to give up. Your flop raise did get you a free card on the turn (I like the turn check here as your opponents are probably not folding unless they are that special type of horrible player builds a big pot only to fold to a brick on the subsequent street). Once you check the turn though you have to give up on the river barring withheld information, as both players would have to fold more that half the time, and as described, I doubt they will.