Having a hard time making profits

[JamaY]

I first started with a 50$ deposit, and in 2 weeks went up to 110$ playing PLO5. Ever since, My bankroll has gone up and down between 110 and 120$ and I can't seem to break the 120$ no matter how hard I try. I'll start the day winning a couple of pots and maybe win one or 2 buyins, but then I'll lose it all small pot after small pot until I'm break even or losing. I don't know if it's a problem with my poker game or my game philosophy, but I just can't seem to become something better than a break even player.
One thing I've noticed is that most of my win comes from 5$ pots where I hit the flop hard and the hand plays for itself, or 1$ pots where I get a decent hand and push people drawing out of the pot. In these situations, I always have a decent or great hand so I can't be sure I'm playing well or I'm just winning because the cards were good. The problem lies when I don't get a good hand, because I try to represent hands that the opponent will have a hard time believing (or play like a donk and call my bluffs with crap that's better than my hand). I guess my questions are...do you guys make all your money from made hands or draws that hit, or do you make money from stealing pots too? Is there a way to know if I extracted the most value from a hand? Do you have any advice to lose less money when I'm behind?
Another topic I'd like to talk about is game selection. I've played with some regulars at my limits long enough to carefully analyse their play, and I usually join their tables and try to outplay them with the information I have on their play style. For example on of them plays very passively on the flop and turn calling with the nuts or air, and often wakes up on the river and bets his made hands. I know he's losing a lot of value not leading, but at the same time I can't seem to extract any value from him and often will go out of my way to beat him and end up playing badly. Is is better to play against players that you know don't play optimally but don;t make silly mistakes either, or hop in a table with 5 unknowns and hope they're fishes?

Sorry if the post is long and the ideas are kind of scrambled, but I hope some advice will help me improve my game and win some money in the process [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[cmyr]

i'd love to read your post but you need to use paragraphs ideas or i get confused and go read something else.

[JamaY]

Haha, I'd knew that would happen.
Lets see if I can sum it up in a couple of sentences.

After almost every one of my sessions (albeit short ones), I end up break even. When I win a couple of buyins, it seems I change my style and end up losing the profits and calling it a day break even or losing a couple of bucks.
When I lose a pot >20BB I start steaming and end up loosening up my play to get that dollar back...and the opposite happens since I call too many raises preflop with speculative hands, or take a stab at pots and get called.

I think I have several leaks in my game, but the biggest problem is psychological: When I play patiently and for the fun of playing well, I win money. When I play to win money, I play badly, losses get to me alot easier and I end up losing the money I won playing patiently.

I don't know if I've just answered part of my question myself, but I'd like to hear some experiences from wining players (especially you cmyr). I don't need the money (or else I wouldn't be playing with such low blinds), but my bankroll represents how well I've played in the session and from the beginning of my "career"...so it's frustrating to always have the same amount and never see it grow past a certain range.

[DonCologne]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess my questions are...do you guys make all your money from made hands or draws that hit, or do you make money from stealing pots too?

[/ QUOTE ]

With higher limits the money increases you will make from stealing pots.
At this level people call too much. So it is good to bet your good made hands and not to try to represent hands.

[ QUOTE ]
Another topic I'd like to talk about is game selection.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think in low limt PLO you must not worried about the strenght of your opponents, even if you sit down without much informations about you opponents.

[ QUOTE ]
or hop in a table with 5 unknowns and hope they're fishes?

[/ QUOTE ]

You must not hope for that, the people are to 90% fishes in these limits.

[JamaY]

So you'd recommend playing a "nut peddling" style and just bet when I have a good made hand or a good draw?
Would you recommend raising preflop considering at least 2 or 3 people will call your raise and cbets are very hard to pull off?
One thing that frustrates me is limping with QQxx, flopping to set, betting pot and seeing everyone fold. Is it really important to care for your table image at these levels (so that people give you more action)?

[cmyr]

the number one skill in PLO is money management and tilt control. Okay, the top two skills in PLO are money management and tilt control. You need to accept that you can play perfectly and lose, and that you can play terribly and win. Long break even stretches happen. You just need to focus on playing well, and if you play well the results will get there.

Stealing pots becomes more important as your opponents start calling less. Value betting made hands and playing draws well is important when your opponents call more. Knowing what kind of game you're in and playing appropriately is important, because of this.

PLO can be a really frustrating game. I remember when I first decided to give grinding a shot, and I was playing the .10-.25 game on party and I broke even for my first 20k hands... I was pretty convinced I just wasn't very good, but I went back at it every morning, reviewing the last night's session, checking my equities and my lines, and eventually that little swing turned around and I started winning some 50-50s.

I had a bad first session this month and that made me play bad for my next few sessions, and suddenly I was stuck 35k. Sometimes you need to move down to rebuild your confidence; sometimes you just need to make sure you're playing focused. Being able to get up from a table when you know you aren't playing your A game can be very important; but you can still lose alot of money playing your A game. It's the nature of poker, and of PLO in particular, and it's something you've got to learn to deal with.

[sqwisssssss]

[ QUOTE ]
the number one skill in PLO is money management and tilt control.

[/ QUOTE ]

that and starting hand selection. i see too many people playing hands in wrong positions with dangler hands.

[cmyr]

i think at plo below 1-2 i can beat 6max w/ 100% vpip. That might be a little gross but certainly i could play 70% of my starting hands and be a winner.


I mean, clearly knowing how to play the game is an important part of being a winner, but longterm it's dealing with your losses that's going to determine whether you stick around.

[alavet]

advice: move up

[JamaY]

[ QUOTE ]
advice: move up

[/ QUOTE ]

I've played a couple of times at PLO10, but even there I felt like I was playing with scared money. I don't think a 105$ bankroll is enough for anything more than PLO5.
When I played on fulltilt I played PLO10 or PLO25 with a 50$ bankroll...but those days are over (since I lost my 50$ :P)