Discussion on Inducing Bluffs

pr0crast · #1 07-17-2007, 12:22 AM

Button sat down 2 orbits ago and already got stacked playing T9o or some crap UTG. I have him marked as reckless and fishy. The river card is a scare card, and I hesitate before checking so villain can get a whiff of my weakness.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

SB ($36.50)
BB ($57.80)
Hero ($50)
MP ($100.05)
CO ($75.40)
Button ($41.35)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Hero raises to $2, 2 folds, Button calls $2, 2 folds.

Flop: ($4.75) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $3.5, Button calls $3.50.

Turn: ($11.75) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $7.75, Button calls $7.75.

River: ($27.25) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $27.25, Hero calls $27.25.

Final Pot: $81.75

Post any comments you have about this hand, or post any other hand you like where you think bluff inducement may apply.

Reup Gang · #2 07-17-2007, 12:24 AM

im much more inclined to give villain's PSB credit for a strong hand rather than a bluff no matter how i played the hand.

pr0crast · #3 07-17-2007, 12:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]
im much more inclined to give villain's PSB credit for a strong hand rather than a bluff no matter how i played the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
Even if you have a very recent read that villain is playing extremely recklessly? Also, we have the A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], making the only reasonable flush here be 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], and villain is definitely trying to rep a flush here, IMO.

Wooden Ta Sheng · #4 07-17-2007, 12:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
In my mind, the best time to induce a bluff is when the villain is someone capable of making moves, is likely to have a missed draw, is not likely to have a hand he will call a reasonably sized bet with, and you have played the hand in such a way that you can believably feign weakness.

In this example, button sat down 2 orbits ago and already got stacked playing T9o or some crap UTG. I have him marked as reckless and fishy. The river card is a scare card, and I hesitate before checking so villain can get a whiff of my weakness. I think hands like this do a lot for my winrate and I'd like to get some discussion going on the best situations to induce bluffs from. Post your hands, reads, comments, questions, or anything else having to do with bluff inducement in general.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

SB ($36.50)
BB ($57.80)
Hero ($50)
MP ($100.05)
CO ($75.40)
Button ($41.35)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Hero raises to $2, 2 folds, Button calls $2, 2 folds.

Flop: ($4.75) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $3.5, Button calls $3.50.

Turn: ($11.75) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $7.75, Button calls $7.75.

River: ($27.25) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $27.25, Hero calls $27.25.

Final Pot: $81.75

[/ QUOTE ]

IMHO, this isn't a good place to induce a bluff. Based on your description of how the hand played, I take it you won this hand, though.

pr0crast · #5 07-17-2007, 12:36 AM

The results don't matter. If you disagree on inducing a bluff here, please explain your reasoning as I have mine, and maybe we can get a productive discussion going.

Keep in mind villain only has a PSB left here, so if your plan is to bet for 1/2 to 2/3 pot, are you really going to fold when he pushes over you? If your plan isn't to induce a bluff here, is your plan to check/fold? That seems gross to me, given reads.

Reup Gang · #6 07-17-2007, 12:38 AM

yes. i assume calling two streets + PSB on a non-super-drawy flop = hand better than AJ

gimmetheloot · #7 07-17-2007, 12:43 AM

this looks OK?

unless he spiked 2 pr on the river or some backdoor draw on us, we beat him v often given his line. NH OP.

Make a note of this PSB on the river with what he had.

pr0crast · #8 07-17-2007, 12:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
yes. i assume calling two streets + PSB on a non-super-drawy flop = hand better than AJ

[/ QUOTE ]
I'd often agree with you, but are you taking into consideration the fact that the river card is the perfect card for him to bluff on? Are you thinking about how villain looks like he's repping a flush, and what flush hand is he calling on the flop and turn with (besides maybe 78s)? If you give villain credit for his PSB, what hands do you think he might have that would lead him to bet like this? If he has a set or two pair, why would he randomly push on the flush card, a card WE are more likely to be afraid of and fold to, when he could just extract a value bet?

Lego05 · #9 07-17-2007, 12:46 AM

The actual pot sized bet would have made me nervous....I do agree though (with that read) that there is a very good chance this is a bluff. It could also be two pair hit on turn or river though.

Personally I believe I try to do stuff like this more often than most. I especially try to keep people's ranges wide in the situation where I have a big pair and the flop comes A high more often than most instead of just c-betting (usually in position) although I think that is a slightly different situation.

I'm not going to now, but I may look through my poker tracker database tomorrow and look for hand like OP is talking about. One hand does come to mind though. I actually check all 3 streets here with a very strong hand and I bet people will disagree wih it here. I think I can back it up though. (I probably have better examples for this post but I don't want to look now and this immediately came to mind):

Villian is 48.72/33.33/13 postflop agg. over 39 hands

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($98.15)
Hero ($100)
BB ($227.55)
UTG ($62)
MP ($164.30)
CO ($90.65)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls $1, 3 folds, Hero raises to $5, BB calls $4, UTG calls $4.

Flop: ($15) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $10, UTG folds, Hero calls $10.

Turn: ($35) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $25, Hero calls $25.

River: ($85) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $187.55 (All-In), Hero calls $60 (All-In).

Final Pot: $205

Results in white below: 
Hero has Tc Ts (four of a kind, tens).
BB has Js Ah (one pair, tens).
Outcome: Hero wins $205. BB wins $127.55.

gimmetheloot · #10 07-17-2007, 12:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
yes. i assume calling two streets + PSB on a non-super-drawy flop = hand better than AJ

[/ QUOTE ]
I'd often agree with you, but are you taking into consideration the fact that the river card is the perfect card for him to bluff on? Are you thinking about how villain looks like he's repping a flush, and what flush hand is he calling on the flop and turn with (besides maybe 78s)? If you give villain credit for his PSB, what hands do you think he might have that would lead him to bet like this? If he has a set or two pair, why would he randomly push on the flush card?

[/ QUOTE ]

cuz u never have a flush either? like, literally, ever...