AQo 100nl, mutliway, TP on flop, how much to raise? reason? then what?

[Paul Thomson]

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Interesting, calling never really crossed my mind. Is this primarily a pot control move?

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worse hands fold, better hands call.

[pr0crast]

So this is a pot control move and a value catching move. Okay, next question: if we were heads up with one of them and he bet $8 on the flop, would you then raise or just call? Do the same principles apply? Does the tendency to call reflect that we are multiway, where the pot is growing 50% faster and we can gain more info by being last to act on the turn? Under what circumstances are you raising TPTK on the flop? If on a blank turn, the first guy bets half pot, and the second guy raises to 1.5x pot, do you instamuck?

[Paul Thomson]

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So this is a pot control move. Okay, next question: if we were heads up with one of them and he bet $8 on the flop, would you then raise or just call? Does the tendency to call reflect that we are multiway, where the pot is growing 50% faster and we can gain more info by being last to act on the turn?

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You don't raise for a few reasons:
- There's no value in raising -- better hands call and worse hands fold.
- If there was a flush draw on board then you could raise to protect against a flush draw.
- Calling also helps for pot control. You're 170bb deep, you don't want to usually play for that many BBs when you have top pair 2nd kicker...

Whether it's heads up or multiway, if a blank rainbow card comes on the turn, and it goes check-check...you should probably check behind and try and get value out on the river.

[pr0crast]

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So this is a pot control move. Okay, next question: if we were heads up with one of them and he bet $8 on the flop, would you then raise or just call? Does the tendency to call reflect that we are multiway, where the pot is growing 50% faster and we can gain more info by being last to act on the turn?

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You don't raise for a few reasons:
- There's no value in raising -- better hands call and worse hands fold.
- If there was a flush draw on board then you could raise to protect against a flush draw.
- Calling also helps for pot control. You're 170bb deep, you don't want to usually play for that many BBs when you have top pair 2nd kicker...

Whether it's heads up or multiway, if a blank rainbow card comes on the turn, and it goes check-check...you should probably check behind and try and get value out on the river.

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Gotcha. Thanks for the helpful reply, Paul.

[pr0crast]

On this thread:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...;gonew=1#UNREAD

hero has TPTK in position and raises the flop. There are no draws to protect against on that dry board. Everyone is saying that his raise is actually too small and that they raise more. There must be value in this with such agreement among posters. If so, what differentiates this situation from the one above?

[Paul Thomson]

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On this thread:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...;gonew=1#UNREAD

hero has TPTK in position and raises the flop. There are no draws to protect against on that dry board. Everyone is saying that his raise is actually too small and that they raise more. There must be value in this with such agreement among posters. If so, what differentiates this situation from the one above?

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There's nothing wrong with just calling on the flop in the other example either.

However, there are a couple differences:
- Hero only has 85BB in the first example, you have 170bb in this one.
- Hero has tpTk in the other example, you have tp2ndk in this one.

[Mr_Donktastic]

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On this thread:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...;gonew=1#UNREAD

hero has TPTK in position and raises the flop. There are no draws to protect against on that dry board. Everyone is saying that his raise is actually too small and that they raise more. There must be value in this with such agreement among posters. If so, what differentiates this situation from the one above?

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One huge difference is that example is heads up. In your example you have a caller in front of you.

[j831526]

My vote would have been 42, but that wan't a choice [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] If you don't raise to 42 or higher, they are getting better than 3-1; I like to make draws face 3-1 or worse because then the draw is usually a mistake.

I also think calling is a reasonable choice here. I doubt you're facing AA or KK because either should reraise before the flop, but BB could have AK and play this way. If you're in the lead, there are at most 8 cards that can beat you. You will win this more than 68.5% of the time. By just calling, you may lose less against AK or induce a weaker A to bluff off chips.

Still, I'd raise to $42 and probably fold to a reraise. My plan would be to bet 1/2 pot on turn and check the river. If either opponent tried to take the lead from me on the turn, I'd look at the turn card and make a judgement call (very unhappy).

[j831526]

Isn't this really TPTK? AK is 2 pair.

I understand the logic behind calling, but there is value in raising. Even if better hands call and worse hands fold you gain value. In the first case you can get away from the hand without losing any more. In the second case you prevent weaker hands from drawing out. If you just call, what do you do when facing a bet on the turn?

[Paul Thomson]

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Isn't this really TPTK? AK is 2 pair.

I understand the logic behind calling, but there is value in raising. Even if better hands call and worse hands fold you gain value. In the first case you can get away from the hand without losing any more. In the second case you prevent weaker hands from drawing out. If you just call, what do you do when facing a bet on the turn?

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Yeah -- But it's not the same as AK on an Ace high board. It's much more like AQ on an Ace high board.