Going to war with KK preflop

[futuredoc85]

*grunch*

going to war pf w/ KK is pretty ballsy since its only the 2nd best hand

[PorkchopDJG]

KK and AA are hands I will never laydown preflop early in a SNG period. I will raise 3x the BB if first in or 6-7x the BB if there are limpers and push to any reraise.

AK and QQ are a different story I will most likely raise 3x the BB if first in or just call a regular raise with these preflop in position and evaluate after the flop.
Not worth going out early against bad players with these hands.

[Kevin8423]

[ QUOTE ]
it wouldn't matter. when you play against the same people all day long, you have to let them know there are certain things they cant do. If I'm the big stack on the bubble and and second stack shoves into me with a tiny stack at the table I will often call with garbage. It isn't optimal, but I can get into the money generally even if I lose, and after people see me call for 80% of my chips with 85o they dont mess with my bigstack unless they want a call. they rarely want a call in that situation. Same thing with a smaller raise. If i have the table covered, and 2nd stack tries to 3x raise past me, I will ussually shove. Then they dont do that anymore.

all that costs me a few in the moneys, but it allows me to soak up ALL the chips on the bubble the rest of the time. when you go itm with 70 or 80% of the chips, you get 1st alot more.

it's also fun, and pisses people off.

[/ QUOTE ]

I also do this occasionally though usually not to a stack quite so big, and then say "My Bubble" and when they complain saying.. You called with 56o?!!??! I say yeah and you better remember that.

Plus I've come to the realization that you win way more often when its some form of a spit call. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Beerocrat]

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Forgot which book says it but I think it is closer to 1 in 10 or 10% of the time. It was a 2+2 book.

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Someone at the table has aces one out of every ten hands? Ummm... nah.

[hoyasaxa]

Phil gordon did some weird calculation. In first position on a 10 handed table there is a 4% chance of running into aces with kings.
Less on a 9 handed and in a later position.

[DoctorSlapnut]

donks

[sickofants]

[ QUOTE ]
Phil gordon did some weird calculation. In first position on a 10 handed table there is a 4% chance of running into aces with kings.
Less on a 9 handed and in a later position.

[/ QUOTE ]
I haven't read the book but this agrees with my calculations.

It's not really that complicated to work out:

There are 6 ways to make AA (4C2)
There are 1225 hand combinations left (50C2)
There are 9 players left

So the probability of running into AA with KK (or any other hand without an Ace) is:

9*(6/1225) = 0.044... = 4.4%

The probability halves if you have a hand containing an Ace and is about 0.7% if you have the rockets yourself.

I suspect this is pretty common knowledge to a lot of people but I just thought I'd take some time to practice my math and inform those to whom this information wasn't known (hell, I didn't know untill I just worked it out!)

[ QUOTE ]
Forgot which book says it but I think it is closer to 1 in 10 or 10% of the time. It was a 2+2 book.


[/ QUOTE ]
If you were playing 21-handed, this would be true. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

I should also say that I am NEVER folding KK in the spot that you described and I'd be hard-pushed to find any other spot where I would fold them either.

[cougar62]

Can we put this friggin thread to bed already? The OP's question was would you ever fold KK pf in a 6.50? The answer is hell [censored] no, and someone came up with the scenario where 2 stacks had 1 chip each and you were shoved into with a big stack and covered. Gee why not throw in that the blinds are still 10/20?

You NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER fold KK pf unless, unless, you're in the above situation or something close to it, where you are a virtual certainty to cash and the shover has you covered. And I'm saying a 99.9% certainty to cash. It's the 6.50s, any situation remotely normal and you do not fold KK.

That is all

Edit: Then again I'm spite calling the above scenario, so back to NEVER EVER EVER.....

[lacky]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
(too much cafiene, not enough sex)

[fozzy71]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Its like 4% time your KK will run into AA?

[/ QUOTE ]

Forgot which book says it but I think it is closer to 1 in 10 or 10% of the time. It was a 2+2 book.



I got this from an old link in my Favs - Here

All examples are for a ten player table;

If you hold KK the chances someone has AA are 19.5 to 1.

If you hold QQ the chances someone holds AA or KK are 9.5 to 1.

If you hold AKos the chances someone holds AA or KK are 19.7 to 1.

If you hold JJ the chances someone holds AA, KK, QQ are 6.2 to 1.

If you hold TT the chances someone has a better pocket pair are 4.5 to 1.