Going Pro

[BankItDrew]

When should it be done?

My understanding is that to be considered a 'Professional Poker Player,' your main source of income should be from playing poker.

I've heard many arguments for an improved hourly rate over your previous job in order to make the transition. This will enable further growth in limits.

What sort of other criteria do you recommend?

Any links to other discussions regarding this issue would also be appreciated.

I play 100NL FR full time 12 table btw.

[zalkin]

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When should it be done?


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As long as you're asking that question you probably shouldn't go pro. (Heard that from somewhere)

I can only speak for my self, but combining poker and a job seems to work best for me. When I have a couple of days off or even a week off from work, only playing poker, I tend to lose my focus and play badly. Having something else to occupy your mind, besides poker, is probably important.

[Rek]

You say you are playing 12 tables full time. If by full time you mean you don’t do “proper work” then it sounds as though you are pro already.

To go pro I think you need to have done your “apprentaship” over say a 2/3 years period. This could be by extensive part-time play but must be enough for you to decide if the lifestyle is for you. It can be very lonely and this will not suit everybody. In other words will you be able to face the daily grind with no real interaction.

You should have an accurate database (spreadsheet) of all your results over a very long period so you know your win rate per hour. Is this going to be enough?

I don’t subscribe to the theory that to change “jobs” you must be earning more. Yes, it is a consideration but then so is job satisfaction. Only you can answer that one.

Where will on-line poker be in a few years time?
Will the fish leave?
What about pensions?
What about health care costs?
What about your family’s thoughts on this career?
Can you do this for the next 30 years or more?

There should be a whole bunch of other questions you should ask yourself. If after all considerations you decide poker is the life for you I wish you all the luck in the world. Just proceed with caution.

[dfwdevil]

if you haven't got a wife or kids, then consequences be damned. stop being a sissy and just go for it. a single guy can withstand the ups and downs of being broke. you can "drive the truck" for a few months if you lose your roll in a real blood game over at KGB's. presumably, you can go back to whatever it is you're doing now. better a rough year or two than missing out on your slice of the good life because you listened to all the naysayers and the responsibility nazis and every other meek, poverty-fearing tom dick and harry. ask stuey ungar how to make the money, he knew. just stay clear of the drugs.

most of the real trouble in poker comes from playing with your kid's child support money, or the equivalent. just keep your nose clean and who cares if you lose every penny. it'll make for a good story someday. and of course, you don't have to lose. that's far from a foregone conclusion.

good luck either way~

[Rek]

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if you haven't got a wife or kids, then consequences be damned. stop being a sissy and just go for it. a single guy can withstand the ups and downs of being broke. you can "drive the truck" for a few months if you lose your roll in a real blood game over at KGB's. presumably, you can go back to whatever it is you're doing now. better a rough year or two than missing out on your slice of the good life because you listened to all the naysayers and the responsibility nazis and every other meek, poverty-fearing tom dick and harry. ask stuey ungar how to make the money, he knew. just stay clear of the drugs.

most of the real trouble in poker comes from playing with your kid's child support money, or the equivalent. just keep your nose clean and who cares if you lose every penny. it'll make for a good story someday. and of course, you don't have to lose. that's far from a foregone conclusion.

good luck either way~

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First and hopefully last post if that is going to be the standard.

OP was at least asking a sensible question. Whether it is right for him only he knows but he was asking for advice.

Stu Unger - wow what a great example. A man that could have had it all but died a lonely, broke, druggie.

[dfwdevil]

no offense, but if every kid who dreamed of going pro took your advice, there'd be about 7 pros in the whole world. people like to get on 2 + 2 and preach about how to be "responsible" but i suspect their preaching is really just a way of validating their own inflated egos, by surreptiously informing everyone that they've "been around the block" and that they know "what's up" and that they give the "right advice".

the only problem is, it's the wrong advice. playing this game professionally is like wrestling a lion. it's not to be conquered with your to-do lists, or your conventional notions of what constitutes "responsibility". and no guy who plays it that safe is going to match up for squat against guys who've put everything on the line repeatedly for the game.

players who are considering going pro should simply do it and either succeed, or fail spectacularly and get it out of their system.

what's really damaging and irresponsible is tell someone to overprepare, make substantive changes to their living and financial arrangements, before going pro. before you and others will give them your approval to do so.

rubbish. the time to go pro is when you're young enough or free enough to do so without having to invest months or years of time to make it possible. the time to go pro is not when you've taken people's absurd advice and amassed a $50,000, 100-buy-in bankroll which you will then in all likelihood proceed to LOSE. the time to go pro is with the $10000 you made off that last tourney, in the summer when you can lapse right back into a normal school life if you go bust. the time to go pro is when your wife divorces you and you find yourself free with a capital f.

stop trying to make poker "safe" by giving people homework when there's nothing safe about it. the potential downside of going pro is exactly equal to the effort, work, and money you put into it beforehand. and yet the upside doesn't change so much.

OP: ignore the advice you'll read in books, and here on the forums: start small and without a lot of fuss, then reevaluate down the line. when it comes to going pro you really want to see the flop before making your decision. don't be afraid to limp in and see that flop for $10 bucks nevermind that people will tell you you need 50K to play.


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First and hopefully last post if that is going to be the standard.

OP was at least asking a sensible question. Whether it is right for him only he knows but he was asking for advice.

Stu Unger - wow what a great example. A man that could have had it all but died a lonely, broke, druggie.

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[JLimbs]

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players who are considering going pro should simply do it and either succeed, or fail spectacularly and get it out of their system.

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Unfortunately more often then not, even after you fail in poker it doesn't just leave your system.

That aside I think somebody already mentioned the most important point, if you have to ask the question of whether or not you should go pro the answer is almost always "no". Ask almost any poker pro for advice on how to go pro and they will advise against it.

Not because they are conceited or trying to condescend but because they understand how difficult the journey can be. Despite what you seem to think many of the pitfalls aren't transparent. Even if you DO manage to make it, there are still plenty of drawbacks.

It's also because they understand the simple truth that there are many people out there that aren't cut out for poker. It doesn't matter how many books your read or how many hours you play, some people just don't have it in them. Why let these people hang themselves when your advice could make a difference and keep them from making a huge mistake.

-Jerry

[furyion21]

I would say that it depends on your feelings towards poker more than your winrate, assuming your winrate is atleast positive; seeing as you're 12tabling, I'm going to guess it is.

The questions you should ask yourself are:
1. Do I enjoy poker more than other jobs?
2. Will I enjoy poker in the years to come?
3. How will being a pro affect other areas of my life?
4. Can I do the things I want to do at this winrate?

Number one is a fairly easy decision. I don't know too many people who don't enjoy poker but play professionally.

2 is a little tougher. Yes, Holdem is a fun, intricate game. But if you're multitabling 100FR, after a while it will get repetitive (if it hasn't already). You'll have the same easy decisions, with marginal/interesting decisions cropping up every so often. You probably won't improve your game tremendously just by multitabling.

3 is definitely the trickiest of all. If you're an internet pro, how much do you experience outside of the office in a regular day? If you're fine with lower social interaction than other potential jobs, then it's no problem.

4 is pretty basic. If you're an absolute crushjob, and the money you make is enough to do what you want to do, then that works.

This is all coming from a business student with no intention of going pro. It's just the questions I'd ask myself if I were to start any job. Take my advice with two grains of salt.

[Rek]

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no offense, but if every kid who dreamed of going pro took your advice, there'd be about 7 pros in the whole world. people like to get on 2 + 2 and preach about how to be "responsible" but i suspect their preaching is really just a way of validating their own inflated egos, by surreptiously informing everyone that they've "been around the block" and that they know "what's up" and that they give the "right advice".

the only problem is, it's the wrong advice. playing this game professionally is like wrestling a lion. it's not to be conquered with your to-do lists, or your conventional notions of what constitutes "responsibility". and no guy who plays it that safe is going to match up for squat against guys who've put everything on the line repeatedly for the game.

players who are considering going pro should simply do it and either succeed, or fail spectacularly and get it out of their system.

what's really damaging and irresponsible is tell someone to overprepare, make substantive changes to their living and financial arrangements, before going pro. before you and others will give them your approval to do so.

rubbish. the time to go pro is when you're young enough or free enough to do so without having to invest months or years of time to make it possible. the time to go pro is not when you've taken people's absurd advice and amassed a $50,000, 100-buy-in bankroll which you will then in all likelihood proceed to LOSE. the time to go pro is with the $10000 you made off that last tourney, in the summer when you can lapse right back into a normal school life if you go bust. the time to go pro is when your wife divorces you and you find yourself free with a capital f.

stop trying to make poker "safe" by giving people homework when there's nothing safe about it. the potential downside of going pro is exactly equal to the effort, work, and money you put into it beforehand. and yet the upside doesn't change so much.

OP: ignore the advice you'll read in books, and here on the forums: start small and without a lot of fuss, then reevaluate down the line. when it comes to going pro you really want to see the flop before making your decision. don't be afraid to limp in and see that flop for $10 bucks nevermind that people will tell you you need 50K to play.


[ QUOTE ]

First and hopefully last post if that is going to be the standard.

OP was at least asking a sensible question. Whether it is right for him only he knows but he was asking for advice.

Stu Unger - wow what a great example. A man that could have had it all but died a lonely, broke, druggie.

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Wow, I am glad you made the 2nd post because I obviously didn’t understand your 1st properly. You are right no doubt.

OP please ignore my original post. Now borrow $10K from friends, family or credit card and buy into the next WSOP ME. Win about $8 Million and then go on to be a TV star playing high stakes poker and amassing further fortunes.

Alternatively buy $10K worth of lottery tickets and win millions. Some people have done it.

Not sure what is more +EV out of the 2 options but if you ask dfwdevil I am sure he will know.

Damn, I wish I had done that.

[sobefuddled]

The most important question is how well do you know yourself? Things to consider are your comfort level vis a vis risk. Playing poker while working a "day job" is very different from playing poker without that paycheck security blanket.
How self-disciplined are you? Can you establish a routine and stick to it?
What are your plans for social interraction? Don't sell that short. It's integral to a healthy psyche.
I'm self-employed tho not in poker and while the upside can be rewarding the downside deserves serious consideration if you want to take the leap. Self knowledge is vital.