Don't be this guy

[rageotones]

i don't comprehend how OP can start a thread about something like this, and still be opposed to a bet line.

and lame on using a rule that is designed to protect the players from angles to totally screw someone.

edit: obviously the bet line is what is needed to take any ambiguity out of the rules. letting dealers use judgement seems like it should work, but obviously is beyond the realm of possibility for some reason.

[RR]

[ QUOTE ]
edit to add: I'm pro betting line, although I don't have the B&M experience of most of the posters here, and certainly not as much NL B&M experience.

Poker tables are just naturally so cramped that it's difficult for me to manage my chips and cards without the line. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I think that for most non-veteran players it's a relief to be able to count out chips without worrying about an accidental muck or a stringbet.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have hit upon the source of the problem. NL was played a certain way for a long time. Then poker exploded and it started be asked for in rooms that were unfamiliar with the game. They then tried to spread the game, but with limit betting rules. These betting rules created problems. THese rooms then tried to implement more rules to fix the problems rather than learning the NL rules that don't have these problems. There is a reason why in NL you can move your chips around until you are done, players knew they just had to wait until the player was done; they knew he might want to count his chips etc. All of these problems can be traced back to someone saying "I don't care how many chips you are putting in, you need to put them all out at once or say what you are doing." {For those that are faily new to NL poker the traditional rule is you can continue to place chips in the pot untill your hands come to rest outside the betting area}.

[LasVegasMichael]

An easy solution to players that have issues with getting additional chips (i.e. String betting) out there, or players that play in places without betting lines, is the following:

Simply announce your bet amount before you even touch your chips. I HIGHLY recommend this for two reasons.

1. You get to see a physical reaction from your opponant. When I announce my bet amount or raise amount, I always am looking at my opponant. I get to see his reflexive reaction to me bet amount. A lot of the time, I will get nothing, but the few times I do get a read or reaction, it is often worth its weight in gold.

2. There is NO issue with having to worry about getting everything out all at once or strng betting. Period.

[rageotones]

[ QUOTE ]
An easy solution to players that have issues with getting additional chips (i.e. String betting) out there, or players that play in places without betting lines, is the following:

Simply announce your bet amount before you even touch your chips. I HIGHLY recommend this for two reasons.

1. You get to see a physical reaction from your opponant. When I announce my bet amount or raise amount, I always am looking at my opponant. I get to see his reflexive reaction to me bet amount. A lot of the time, I will get nothing, but the few times I do get a read or reaction, it is often worth its weight in gold.

2. There is NO issue with having to worry about getting everything out all at once or strng betting. Period.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is great for cash games, but it isn't always that easy in tournaments.

[LasVegasMichael]

Point noted. My post was written strictly from a NL cash game player point of view, as I rarely play tournaments. Should have mentioned that.

[ChrisConstantine]

This is one of the many reasons why automated tables can be better for tournaments and NL games.

[KipBond]

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This is one of the many reasons why automated tables can be better for tournaments and NL games.

[/ QUOTE ]

ban

[rageotones]

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This is one of the many reasons why automated tables can be better for tournaments and NL games.

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ban

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2nd

[LasVegasMichael]

[ QUOTE ]
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This is one of the many reasons why automated tables can be better for tournaments and NL games.

[/ QUOTE ]

ban

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2nd

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3rd.

[pig4bill]

[ QUOTE ]
i understand the string betting rules. and to some degree i understand why you would want to have a betting line or not be allowed to count out a bet in front of your cards.

however, if someone is counting out chips in front of their cards in a manner that is clearly not angle shooting then i think they should be warned before being forced to call a bet.

when you play with people for a little while, it is generally clear what they do with their chips before they make a bet, raise, or call. if they're not angling, they shouldn't be forced to do something they weren't intending to do.

this would only work in some hypothetical perfect world though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly! When the string bet was called on me, it was obvious to all what my intent was. I wasn't looking at the 4 other players in the hand to "gauge their reaction", my eyes were on my chips as I was counting them out.