500NL LIVE: KK UTG+1

[ActionStan]

I think you should start limp/re-raising with more than KK+. There's a lot of dead money out there when the small pp's don't make sets. So yummy.

[ActionStan]

Is it just me, or is never open limp the most over used criticism on NLHE-FR. Open limping just isn't the worst thing in the world and sometimes it's pretty good. Don't fear the flop gentlemen. It's your friend.

[ActionStan]

I think that's one of the most misunderstood things about PNL. Commitment threshold == stack off. I certainly misunderstood and misaplied it the after my first exposure. Going back for a second read and I am much better about conditional commitment.

That said, in some games (especially live ones) target spr == get it all in.

I think much of this discussion about what the right sized reraise is misses the larger point of the example. Take the conditions at the table, manipulate the pot to the size you want, plan your hand, execute that plan until something convinces you otherwise. Of course that hand doesn't apply to all situations. But if you open your thinking a bit to examine the planning and all of the preconditions that go with it, it's a pretty powerful example.

If the conditions at your table are different, formulate a different plan that is appropriate, but still honor the decision points you put in place with the plan.

[ActionStan]

[ QUOTE ]

I said, "learning to play FRNL well". You don't have to play well to be profitable at live low stakes. You just have to be non-brain damaged. I haven't read your book yet, and I'm not really looking to take shots at you, but, the title is "Professional NLHE". This implies a certain degree of sophistication beyond beating $1/$2 live. Are you saying it's in fact a beginner's book? Then why doesn't the title reflect that?


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From what I gather, much of the material (the first volume particularly) is geared at introducing concepts applied by professional players to intermediate players. Hand planning, pot structuring, etc. Not so much that if you read this book you will be able to play 50-100NL at the bike.

[ActionStan]

Hi Matt,

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the AK kills the offered implied odds problem.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Do you mean that you aren't likely to stack off with AK when it misses or did you have something else in mind.

And for all you haters that think limp/rr means KK+, open it up baby. There's money to be made off of people, well, just like you.

[1p0kerboy]

[ QUOTE ]
I haven't read your book yet

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll fill you in.

[ QUOTE ]
the title is "Professional NLHE". This implies a certain degree of sophistication

[/ QUOTE ]

This has been a huge debate in the other thread. I think the conclusion was that it should not have been named this AND it is merely a primer for the upcoming volume 2, which is going to be more oriented towards stealing.

[ QUOTE ]
Are you saying it's in fact a beginner's book?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the authors did concede in the other thread that it is indeed a beginner's book.

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Why have we decided our line for the whole hand, in advance, and in complete disreguard of any information we might obtain later in the hand?

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I'll quote from the book on this one.

The very first sentence in the book:

Plan your hand. If we had to summarize this book in three words, that would be it.

Then it says:

Plan Your Hand in a bold box.

The planning is almost all done preflop and on the flop, as we are building big pots preflop and then deciding if we want to stack off on the flop.

[1p0kerboy]

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And for all you haters that think limp/rr means KK+, open it up baby.

[/ QUOTE ]

What a great idea.

Play big pots out of position with weak hands.

You must tear this game up.

[Cry Me A River]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you are missing the point of it. The book never says, "Hit your target SPR and stack off any flop."

The point is that once you hit your target SPR then you have already predetermined that your play is +EV. Of course, you can still be conditionally committed and decide to back out. There are many variables.


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K - Then why are we stacking off against MP1?

Do you really think he has top pair or the flush draw anywhere near often enough to make this a good idea?

[1p0kerboy]

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I'm not sure what you mean by this. Do you mean that you aren't likely to stack off with AK when it misses or did you have something else in mind.

[/ QUOTE ]

He means exactly what you first stated.

Of course, the setminer is still likely to get a continuation bet out of the deal.

[Sunny Mehta]

[ QUOTE ]
I haven't read your book yet, and I'm not really looking to take shots at you, but, the title is "Professional NLHE". This implies a certain degree of sophistication beyond beating $1/$2 live. Are you saying it's in fact a beginner's book? Then why doesn't the title reflect that?

[/ QUOTE ]

CMAR,

If you don't like the title of our book, I can accept that. But do me a favor - read it first, read the SPR stuff, read the example (a live $2-$5 example), read who the intended audience is (beginners striving to be professionals) and then make your vehement comments.


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Your point is that bad loose players will call small re-raises but not big ones. Then why would you think MP1 would ever fold?

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I was referring to the player who has already raised, not a player coldcalling a raise and a 3-bet.


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Against bad players, meh, but you don't have to fall victim to fancy play syndrome and put yourself in such vulnerable positions in order to beat them.


[/ QUOTE ]

The play is not fancy. You limp with KK in EP in a live $2-$5 game, and then when the button raises (which indicates a fairly wide range) you reraise to an amount that creates a good stack-to-pot ratio for postflop commitment/maximization, keeps him in the pot with the dominated portion of his range (the portion you stand to make the most money off of when he commits - which he WILL do with hands like top pair), and either gets the pot HU or makes it unprofitable for MP1's range to coldcall.

I'm not really sure what we're debating anymore. If anyone else has any other book-specific questions, there's a review thread in the Books forum.

Thanks,

Sunny