Question about a Stox hand - Page 2

toss · #11 05-15-2006, 12:16 AM

"So what I think I'm going to do is make a video for each limit..."

Omg Please!!! Your videos are too good. The commentary is so helpful. Can't wait to see 10/20, 20/40, 300/600 videos.

RED_RAIN · #12 05-15-2006, 12:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I would almost never check a river blank if I bet the turn and I was called.

[/ QUOTE ]

This way I protect myself from being raised by a better hand and induce a bluff from many possible hands.

Just the thought it takes a lot better hand to call than to bet on the river from his perspective.

jgorham · #13 05-15-2006, 05:43 AM

From a fundamental theorem perspective, it is a bigger mistake for an oppenent to put money into the pot than to fold (such a small pot), even if he has 6 clean outs. So if there is no way he checks overs here this is a better play.

stoxtrader · #14 05-15-2006, 08:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
From a fundamental theorem perspective, it is a bigger mistake for an oppenent to put money into the pot than to fold (such a small pot), even if he has 6 clean outs. So if there is no way he checks overs here this is a better play.

[/ QUOTE ]

well, the cocept is somewhat complicated, but I think the two biggest factors are:

1. Is this player bad enough to peel the TURN with 6 outs. if the anwer is yes then not betting is a significant mistake.

2. is the player aggressive/good enough to bet the turn if checked to on a bluff semi/bluff but fold the turn correctly if you lead. (in this case a turn check is better.)

brettbrettr · #15 05-15-2006, 11:28 AM

link to videos?

tpir · #16 05-15-2006, 12:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
link to videos?

[/ QUOTE ]
His blog is here:
http://www.stoxpoker.com/poker-blogs/stoxtrader

Here are the links to the videos to make things easier:
1) http://www.stoxpoker.com/bounce.php?...thcallouts.wmv
2) http://www.stoxpoker.com/bounce.php?vid=limit24.wmv

The hand I asked about is in the second one.

-tpir

Nate tha\\\' Great · #17 05-15-2006, 03:29 PM

I don't like a check and the reason has less to do with the turn and more with the river: even if he bets the turn, I think the opponent is pretty likely to check behind with an unimproved hand, whereas I think you'll get a fair number of calls from something like AJ if you're in the habit of check-raising flops like this one with a gutshot or less. But, I also don't think that he'll check behind so often that you can safely fold if he bets in twice. In other words, I think you're getting a much better parlay when you're the one who is first into the pot.

27offsooot · #18 05-15-2006, 04:58 PM

hmmm... Did you read the thread in small stakes where Stox responded to it...
Stox video thread

I thought there were other interesting hands, but my top one was the one in question.

Anyway, if you don't want to read the link, here's Stox's response...
"the 76o hand where I c/r my 10 dirty outs on the flop and improve on the turn. the turn play here is very opponent specific, and OP's point about generally passive/bad play is very pertinent and does argue for a bet. it's close and I would say the more aggressive a player is the better a check is and the more passive a player is the better a bet is. if he is going to pay to see 6 outs and you don't bet it that is definitely a large mistake. Conversely, if he will make a correct folds to your bets, thin raises with top pair and 2nd pair, pocket pair hands, sprinkled with overcard bluff/free showdown raise with AK then you are better off checking."

tpir · #19 05-15-2006, 05:11 PM

Thanks for the link. The only other hand I was curious about that has not been addressed was the A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] one where he talks about giving up on the flop. It might be a leak but I bet the flop in that hand almost every time (two callers that check to us, flop is T-high, ragged and rainbow with one [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img])

27offsooot · #20 05-15-2006, 05:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the link. The only other hand I was curious about that has not been addressed was the A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] one where he talks about giving up on the flop. It might be a leak but I bet the flop in that hand almost every time (two callers that check to us, flop is T-high, ragged and rainbow with one [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img])

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I remember that one now, I meant to ask about that as well.