7/10/2007 iMEGA Suit Against UIGEA Strongest Fight Against the US Bill

[MiltonFriedman]

"So first, is it your contention that the UIGEA is vulnerable to constitutional challenge? If so, what would be the basis of that challenge, in your mind?"

What I think is not relevant really, the issue has been joined already in this litigation (to which I am neither a party nor counsel, not even a friend of the court.) The argument to make is Commerce Clause based. There is a precedent to stand on in ACLU v Gonzales, where DOJ was enjoined from enforcing the Child Porn Act. The problem is that case was also clearly a 1st Amendment case. I think these litigants are making a HUGE mistake by not joining individual plaintiffs.

You are absolutely right as to the minimal goals of the people who pushed this through. The same tactic worked with respect to marketing, to a degree. However, be clear that there IS an intent to put operators into jail if possible, by bootstrapping an obscure, unintentional state law violation into a federal case. (

[MiltonFriedman]

regs they have ever published"

We cannot rely on the suspect interests of the PPA. US poker players need to make their voices heard, and address some common points ..... Let's see what the Regs say to pinpoint what to raise.

I think that the US facing sites will urge their players to write in, wonder if Party will contact their former players ? (Mike Sexton has shown interest in that, generating emails in the past to former Party players.)

You KNOW Focus On Family will be active.

[snappo]

http://www.gambling911.com/Online-Ga...EA-071207.html

Updated: UIGEA Hearing Set for September 4

"A Federal Judge in the state of New Jersey has assigned a hearing date for its lawsuit against U.S. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales that seeks to have an new online gambling law, the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act (UIGEA) overturned. Gambling911.com has learned that the hearing date is set for September 4. Judge Mary L. Cooper of the US District Court in Trenton, NJ will hear the matter.

The group, the Interactive Media Entertainment & Gaming Association (iMEGA), has a good shot, according to Cassimir Medford who has been covering the online gambling legal climate for Red Herring

iMEGA's goal is to get the court to declare the UIGEA unconstitutional and unenforceable, according to Medford. That’s because the group says the act violates the First Amendment’s rights to freedom of speech and commercial association as well as the Tenth Amendment’s protections of states’ rights to regulate online gambling.

'The UIGEA can still be enforced prior to the September 4 date,' he said. 'But we feel confident that the judge will prevent that from happening.'"

[niss]

[ QUOTE ]
Comment noted.

There is a US District Court for the District of New Jersey. It certainly has local rules and procedures. The suit was filed in the US District Court there. I think it would be covered by both the FedR.Civ.Pro and the local (New Jersey) US District Court rules.

(But of course, since you read the underlying brief document you already knew the matter was pending in Federal court, not State court.)

[/ QUOTE ]

They filed their request for a TRO by notice of motion and not by Order to Show Cause. Hence the return date of September. Very unusual. I can't see how you get a TRO without showing exigency, and if there is exigency they would have proceeded by Order to Show Cause. I was going to say in my original response that I think this motion has a snowball's chance in hell of succeeding, having read the papers, but I don't want to kill the party.

By the way I practice in NJ federal court regularly and can try to answer any questions about procedure (I haven't made it all the way through the thread yet so if there's anything further below I'll respond if I can).

[JimmytheHat19]

So, this is what I wanna know. I am no legal expert nor do I even understand half the terms I have just read in this thread. Here is what I DO know: I'm 25 yrs old and I derive most of my income from playing online poker. I live in Colorado. I have very serious concerns (maybe paranoia) about one day waking up and finding that I wont be able to withdraw money to pay my bills. I also have concerns that long-term losing players won't be able to deposit money onto the sites, which ultimately ends up in the hands of players like me. This obv creates a problem as to how much money I am able to make.

From everything I've read, it sounds to me like there is a good chance of things working out. But I want someone who knows what they are talking about to tell me the WORST CASE SCENARIO for a guy like me. What if Imega fails in court to prove their case and the judge grants the UIGEA constitutional and everything moves forward from there? What if the fed writes the rules into play and prohibits banks from transferring any money between players and the sites, and vice-versa? Again, I really dont understand all this stuff and I am just describing it as I understand it. Please correct me if I sound like an idiot. Will I be out a job? Even if it all goes to hell, will there ALWAYS be a way to get money out of the site and for losing players to deposit? One other fear I have is that the remeaining US-accepting sites might get scared and pull out of the US market for a few yrs until things cool down and online gaming is legalized and regulated, a la partypoker? If THAT happens, I am definately screwed. I make a good living for myself playing poker online, 12-tabling for 5 to 7 hrs a day. I make about 3 times as much as I would hanging sheetrock or swinging a hammer. I am an uneducated person but intelligent when it comes to poker and right now I am very happy with how things are going for me and I get really upset everytime I think about what the govt is trying to do to online poker which is so clearly a skill game. Is there anything I can do to help you guys with the fight? I sent letters to my state congressman several months back and I am a paid member of the PPA.

Well, I realize this was long and prbly boring to most of you but this is a super-important issue to me and I dont really understand all the legal mumbo-jumbo I read in these threads. Any feedback on my questions would be greatly appreciated, especially the worst-case scenario questions. Thanks.

[niss]

[ QUOTE ]
For one, it's strange that the TRO application is in the complaint. Is that a federal thing?!

[/ QUOTE ]

While not procedurally correct, I have seen this before. It's nothing more than attorneys who are either doing a belt and suspenders thing or who do not understand that a claim for a TRO or injunctive relief does not give rise to a cause of action separate and distinct from the substantive causes of action alleged in the complaint.

[Legislurker]

[ QUOTE ]
So, this is what I wanna know. I am no legal expert nor do I even understand half the terms I have just read in this thread. Here is what I DO know: I'm 25 yrs old and I derive most of my income from playing online poker. I live in Colorado. I have very serious concerns (maybe paranoia) about one day waking up and finding that I wont be able to withdraw money to pay my bills. I also have concerns that long-term losing players won't be able to deposit money onto the sites, which ultimately ends up in the hands of players like me. This obv creates a problem as to how much money I am able to make.

From everything I've read, it sounds to me like there is a good chance of things working out. But I want someone who knows what they are talking about to tell me the WORST CASE SCENARIO for a guy like me. What if Imega fails in court to prove their case and the judge grants the UIGEA constitutional and everything moves forward from there? What if the fed writes the rules into play and prohibits banks from transferring any money between players and the sites, and vice-versa? Again, I really dont understand all this stuff and I am just describing it as I understand it. Please correct me if I sound like an idiot. Will I be out a job? Even if it all goes to hell, will there ALWAYS be a way to get money out of the site and for losing players to deposit? One other fear I have is that the remeaining US-accepting sites might get scared and pull out of the US market for a few yrs until things cool down and online gaming is legalized and regulated, a la partypoker? If THAT happens, I am definately screwed. I make a good living for myself playing poker online, 12-tabling for 5 to 7 hrs a day. I make about 3 times as much as I would hanging sheetrock or swinging a hammer. I am an uneducated person but intelligent when it comes to poker and right now I am very happy with how things are going for me and I get really upset everytime I think about what the govt is trying to do to online poker which is so clearly a skill game. Is there anything I can do to help you guys with the fight? I sent letters to my state congressman several months back and I am a paid member of the PPA.

Well, I realize this was long and prbly boring to most of you but this is a super-important issue to me and I dont really understand all the legal mumbo-jumbo I read in these threads. Any feedback on my questions would be greatly appreciated, especially the worst-case scenario questions. Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, you can go to a live card room. Its a boring bitch of a way to make a living but you can.

What you can do. Well, talk to people, make an effort to go out and make conversation about poker/gambling. If you can support him, sign up for a Ron Paul group. Do what the rest of us do, keep writing your legislators, regulators, and editors. Call into a radio talk show. Vote. Donate money. Im in the same boat you are, a nice living has come crashing down to where Im afraid to spend money outside of a stripped down monthly nut. Congrats on still multi tabling that many hours a day, I cant stomach how little I make doing it, so I barely play. This summer SHOULD be the worst of your life if you stay in poker. None of us KNOW if it will get better, but we think the worst has hit barring a massive IRS crackdown.

[MiltonFriedman]

As for the snowball chances of success, a procedural quote from the US District Courts' Procedural FAQs :

"Question:
What is the proper way to address an online gaming operator in US Federal District Court ?"

"Answer: Will the Defendant please rise ?"

[MiltonFriedman]

All your concerns are justified. Do not count on even the current situation to remain. (I think it will to a large extent, but be prepared for change. Keep in mind that eight years ago your "job" did not exist afterall.)

Do not leave money you need to pay bills in your poker bankroll. Take it out and put it somewhere a bit more liquid and safe.

If you really make 3x as much playing online poker as hanging sheetrock, consider leaving the country to keep your "job". (People leave their home country to pursue a better economic situation every day. Why do you think online operators are offshore ?)

[MiltonFriedman]

Joe Brennan, Jr., iMEGA founder and a former executive of AOL, quoted in Gambling911.com:

"The UIGEA can still be enforced prior to the September 4 date," he said. "But we feel confident that the judge will prevent that from happening."
Brennan went on to explain how enforcement of the UIGEA would only serve to make the judge's job more cumbersome.
"She (the judge) will then have to wade through all the rules and regulations in addition to reviewing our complaint."

This is possibly the most inane reasoning I have ever seen, even on Gambling911. (Please note the crucial transitional paragraph is not a direct quote) Did iMEGA really say the Judge would act before the Regs are out BECAUSE otherwise she would have too much to read through ? wtf kind of public statement would that be ? It is patently absurd, worse than the late NROG's legslative analysis or most of what Gaboonviper posts.