KK on weird board...value bet it?

chrismystero · #1 11-13-2007, 03:45 AM

I'm posting this hand because I often miss value in hands like this, or, I valuebet when I shouldn't have. Obviously reads here would help a lot but I don't have that benefit quite yet.

Do you value bet this river? If so, how much? Also if so, what kinds of hands pay off a valuebet here?

If you do not think we should valuebet, please explain.

Thoughts on any other street appreciated as well.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (9 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG+1 (t2480)
Hero (t4588)
MP2 (t4435)
MP3 (t3300)
CO (t1297)
Button (t3010)
SB (t3350)
BB (t4135)
UTG (t3515)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises to t150, 4 folds, SB calls t125, 1 fold.

Flop: (t350) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets t275, SB calls t275.

Turn: (t900) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

River: (t900) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero ?

jchauvin · #2 11-13-2007, 04:12 AM

hmmm, i think 550 is in order here. all sorts of pp's call.

rest of the hand is fine.

erc007 · #3 11-13-2007, 04:13 AM

After the 3rd club hits on the turn and the board pairs OTR, i don't think that there are any/many hands in his range that he can call 400-500 with. I think he has a missed SD or 77;88 (which are now only bluff catchers that prob can't call a river bet of any size.) U might get value from a bluff catcher if you have a loose image, or if villain likes to make hero calls. I don't think that he can/will c/r bluff u here, so u can bet 400-500 and fold to a raise. Bottom line, since u have no reads on him, it's highly unlikely that you're getting a call here from a worse hand.

Sykes · #4 11-13-2007, 07:55 AM

River check seems fine.

I'd fire 500 on the turn though

yNnOs · #5 11-13-2007, 08:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
River check seems fine.

I'd fire 500 on the turn though

[/ QUOTE ]

Willd · #6 11-13-2007, 09:38 AM

It might be a leak but I value bet river ~100% of the time against a random. What hand does a random check to you twice that has you beat? I don't know what buy in this is but a random will very rarely check intending to check raise 2 streets in a row. They will also very rarely c/r bluff here so I think bet/fold is fine.

Admittedly it's hard to put him on a hand that can pay you off but when you have the best hand the vast majority of the time just bet and let him work out why he should call you with a worse hand.

On the turn I check behind pretty much always if I had the Kc but without it I would probably bet about half the time depending on read/timing tell if any, with default being to bet/fold.

BlueEcho · #7 11-13-2007, 11:31 AM

I think both checking and value betting are fine. I'm inclined to think we are ahead here. FWIW I probably fire 500-600 on the river hoping he tries to pick off a bluff with A-high or TT. If he shoves we are screwed. Either way it's pretty thin.

TheFoxNL · #8 11-13-2007, 02:29 PM

Check behind

Hollywade · #9 11-13-2007, 02:50 PM

To me, it's pretty obvious that he doesn't have a 9 or a flush. Therefore, you might as well value bet. I'd try 300. He might call you with any pair or even ace high since you showed no strength after the flop.

Hollywade · #10 11-13-2007, 02:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think he has a missed SD

[/ QUOTE ]

How do you come up with this? I'm having a hard time putting him on a missed draw when no money was put into the pot postflop and we never got to see how he would react to a bet. It seems just as likely that he has Ax or a low pocket pair to me. There is no indication that the board even remotely coordinates with his hand.