SSNL [cheese] thread: NOV Pt 2 (nc)

[BGnight]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
yeah what's wrong with the 4b?

[/ QUOTE ]

cuz we're bluffing w/ a pair pf?

[/ QUOTE ]

so? i fail to see it's value as a hand otherwise

[/ QUOTE ]

Your better off folding or calling and making moves on certain flops along w/ set value?

[nuggetz87]

i mean, if he's 3betting wide enough then it becomes profitable. pretty simple. he folds the large majority of the time and when he doesn't, we're probably something like 33% against his range (just an estimate)

[BGnight]

[ QUOTE ]
i mean, if he's 3betting wide enough then it becomes profitable. pretty simple. he folds the large majority of the time and when he doesn't, we're probably something like 33% against his range (just an estimate)

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, it doesn't seem like a good idea vs an unknown w/ "TAGish stats". You need to know he's 3betting light a lot here to consider it right?

[pdoran10]

sure if you want to turn 77 into a pure bluff because you think 4 betting any 2 cards is profitable, but even then, we leave ourself in a pretty terrible spot if and when shoved on. not to mention that i think making a 4 bet to 36bbs when you are playing 100bbs deep is pretty silly and i think it has less fold equity than a smaller 4 bet or a shove, leaving ourselves vulenerable to making bad folds and bad calls when shoved on.

[BGnight]

[ QUOTE ]
sure if you want to turn 77 into a pure bluff because you think 4 betting any 2 cards is profitable, but even then, we leave ourself in a pretty terrible spot if and when shoved on. not to mention that i think making a 4 bet to 36bbs when you are playing 100bbs deep is pretty silly and i think it has less fold equity than a smaller 4 bet or a shove, leaving ourselves vulenerable to making bad folds and bad calls when shoved on.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, it seems horrible w/ 100bb's. If ur gonna do it a 4minbet is much better

[pdoran10]

ok so maybe it has more fold equity than a small 4 bet, but still...

[Noam Chomsky]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
yeah what's wrong with the 4b?

[/ QUOTE ]

cuz we're bluffing w/ a pair pf?

[/ QUOTE ]

so? i fail to see it's value as a hand otherwise

[/ QUOTE ]

Your better off folding or calling and making moves on certain flops along w/ set value?

[/ QUOTE ]

So, you're better off:
1. folding what is often the best hand preflop
or
2. waiting until after the flop when his two card hand turns into a five card hand to turn your pair into a bluff
or
3. Folding what will, a good percent of the time be the best hand post flop

than you are 'bluffing w/a pair p/f'?

SSNL has been around and around about this type of play before and I remain unconvinced that there is anything wrong with four betting with mid and even small pairs some small percentage of the time to combat light three betting. Especially oop.

[nuggetz87]

well i was advocating 4bettting with the intention of calling. if you aren't sure he's reraising wide enough to do that i'd probably just fold.

[BGnight]

[ QUOTE ]
well i was advocating 4bettting with the intention of calling. if you aren't sure he's reraising wide enough to do that i'd probably just fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's $100nl. 4bet calling w/ 77 is reeeally bad.

[Noam Chomsky]

I'm not advocating 4-bet/folding either. Perhaps that was unclear from the last sentence, simply paraphrased from BGnight's post.