borodog's mistaken understanding of M3...don't listen to his drivel

[bills217]

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<font color="green">DcifrThs </font> is now permanently lodged in my mind as "that insane M3/Borodog rant guy."

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[ ] Lots of smileys
[x] Lots of LOLs
[x] Attack on Borodog
[ ] America bashing
[ ] Christian bashing
[ ] content

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[anatta]

I was considering the M3, but got the SC430. All the other yogis are jealous, but I tell 'em when you're Dharma Magazines 5 time Yogin of the Year (96-99, 03), you can get a red convertible Lexy, too. Then I peel out and say "Vipassana Biatches!".

[pvn]

This reminds me of the thread a while back where I made a comment about Saturn moon rockets, then in a later post used pictures of two titan rockets, and RedBean went on for six pages about how I obviously couldn't tell the difference between a Saturn and a Titan.

[bobman0330]

Who knew that M3 had the potential to unlock such furious passions...

[Orlando Salazar]

Boro has once said the Gov't expenditures "are such a smalll portion of GDP" in reference to a comment on how Gov't debt purchased by foreign nations (China) skews our GDP number. However, from what I've learned, even if the savings rate is as high as 25%, gov't expenditures through these conduits (foreign holdings of national debt) effect the GDP, and subsequent "GDP growth", by a multiple of 4 through the GE Multiplier. Please comment if you think I'm misinformed.

[RedBean]

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This reminds me of the thread a while back where I made a comment about Saturn moon rockets, then in a later post used pictures of two titan rockets, and RedBean went on for six pages about how I obviously couldn't tell the difference between a Saturn and a Titan.

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I was amazed it took you six pages of bullheaded evasiveness before acknowledging you were wrong.

Good times. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[ojc02]

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This thread needs more lolcats.

[pvn]

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This reminds me of the thread a while back where I made a comment about Saturn moon rockets, then in a later post used pictures of two titan rockets, and RedBean went on for six pages about how I obviously couldn't tell the difference between a Saturn and a Titan.

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I was amazed it took you six pages of bullheaded evasiveness before acknowledging you were wrong.

Good times. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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I wasn't. Nice try, though. Have you stopped beating your wife yet?

[DcifrThs]

excellent tactics borodog.

call me crazy all you want. i am not letting you get away with this.

i will also no longer quote the entire exchange.

i made it very clear why i chimed in in the other thread in the first place. i've gotten PMs saying basically that "i used to think boro was really right all the time" and that "the manner in which he[boro] debates is insulting and geared towards winning."

so let's see why i chimed in... i thought the OP in the last thread was being brainwashed without understanding an important point.

you have a great impact on people and i think you use that (possibly unknowingly) to convert followers (more likely knowingly). but your followers then come in and ask questions with your words where it is clear that the actual sound bites are drivel even if they have logical meaning behind them...it may not be your fault. it may simply be that you are brainwashed too. i've had great exchanges recently with people like zygote who 100% agree with your conclusions, but don't come accross as badly as you do.

correcting the drivel, i.e. showing that the order of operations is not that the fed just prints money (b/c as you correctly, but oddly, pointed out)but that money is released through open market operations...which THEN lowers interest rate (the goal...in your words, the cart...or the horse...i forget which one intent is supposed to be)...which THEN cetaris parabis lowers the value of the dollar relative to its trading partners.

but the pure lowering of interest rates does not have an effect on the US dollar if its partners do the same thing by the same amount....or if its partners are doing it by more.

it isn't an absolute that lowering interest rates lowers the value of the dollar (which is what the OP in the last thread seemed to believe), just because it is true most of the time. in fact, we recently saw an episode (smoetime in this past week, can't remember the day) where US interest rates (bond yields) fell and the dollar strengthened!!!

it doesn't help anyone to say "the fed is printing money and devaluing the dollar" other than your own clan or people you are trying to convert. it would be far better if you actually explained things the way they are so that those people don't get a distorted idea of the order of operations. it wouldn't sound as good but it would be more useful in the long run so that your convertees could intelligently argue their points.

the way i handled that objection was obviously crazy because you drive me batsh*t crazy.

so keep at it, but lets deal with the next issue please...thanks.













next issue:

i started THIS thread not to destract from "being insulting and wrong" but to actually be insulting and right and it turns out that in this case i am both.

you can't change the fact that you have used numerous times in the past the cessation of the printing of M3 as ammunition saying that "they just stopped doing it because it looks worse." well, if you took 3 seconds to look up what was actually contained in M3 you'd see there are things that are distortive, informationwise as the use of repos has exponentially increased, without increasing the value of the indicator....

...or maybe you did look up M3 and saw it contained things that you didn't understand or know the extent of (repos) and just assumed it was a govt conspiracy anyways.

now you want to say "well it doesn't matter M2, M3, who gives a sh*t," but you can't. why? simply because you've used the not publishing of M3, like i just said, as evidence against the fed.

NOTE: please reread that before continuing. i'm not delving into a fed interest rate debate here. i'm simply saying that evidence you've used in the past is that it is fishy that the fed chose to stop publication of M3. Ron Paul has used the same in his speaches, but none of the opposition understood what could have been the real reason. notice that ron paul DIDNT say that when ben bernanke was the one being questioned because he would have gotten it shoved down his throat while he DID delve into almost every other major issue he had while he had his time at the M&amp;B committee testimony.

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I scoffed at the idea that the reason they stopped publishing it is cost

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ok, so you scoffed that they stopped the publication b/c of cost. but why? what was your alternative hypothesis?

you didn't possibly consider the reason they stopped publishing it is a combination of usefulness (repos distorting it) and cost...like they (the fed) said.

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No more, no less. Oh, but I forget! The government would never have any motives that aren't pure as the driven snow. No, it couldn't POSSIBLY be that M3 just looks worse than M2.

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well, a poster below me said it so i'll just quote his reply:

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Boro I don't think you can both at the same time say "No more, no less." and "No, it couldn't POSSIBLY be that M3 just looks worse than M2." I have yet to see something that the M3 numbers are more accurate then the m2 numbers. You have stated that the M3 number is the important one, and the only reason that you have given is that it's looks worse. Nor have you made a statement regarding the cost to the fed to acquire M3 versus extra knowledge that can gleamed above M2. I'll grant you motive that the fed might not want to publish numbers that make them look bad, but is there any other reason then a MO, that this is a conspiracy?

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so boro, call me crazy, keep belittling me and getting backing, it doesn't matter. the fact that you won't "let me get away with it" will only back you into a acorner until you will have to admit you are wrong...which is what i want.

you might even say something like "OK FINE, scoffing at the cost was a means i used to sell people on the conspiracy to stop printing it" or some other quick one liner to now discount this discussion without actually admitting being wrong. that won't fly and we'll keep at it until you have admitting your incorrectness here.

if that makes me crazy, so be it. but all the crazy insults, therapy cats, or other belittling words (no matter how funny...because therapy cat was not a 9/10, it was 10/10) won't distract from the goal i set out here of insulting you (may or may not be accomplished, but either way i'll concentrate more on the next goal) and to prove you wrong.

Barron

[ALawPoker]

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it isn't an absolute that lowering interest rates lowers the value of the dollar (which is what the OP in the last thread seemed to believe), just because it is true most of the time.

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It isn't an absolute that AA will beat 67, but it is an absolute that getting your chips in with 67 vs. AA is -EV.

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it doesn't help anyone to say "the fed is printing money and devaluing the dollar" other than your own clan or people you are trying to convert. it would be far better if you actually explained things the way they are so that those people don't get a distorted idea of the order of operations. it wouldn't sound as good but it would be more useful in the long run so that your convertees could intelligently argue their points.

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I'm pretty sure 2X + 3X = 5X. If you for some reason (perhaps you make a career out of such things) want to spend an endless amount of energy arguing why it equals 5.2X, you shouldn't trick yourself into thinking there need be a complicated counter-argument.

Quite simply, the fed is printing money and devaluing the dollar.


In other news, I'm glad to see this thread is alive and well.