open % from CO and button

[acehole60]

Yeah, it's good advice sweetjazz, but the best solution really is to quit as soon as your not playing your A-game.

[Oink]

About 35 and 53 FWIW. Assuming low rake and unknow blinds in a 1-2 chip structure

[yourface]

[ QUOTE ]
HEISBENBERG!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

[rzk]

[ QUOTE ]
Adding a 0 EV, or sometimes a very very barely -EV hand to your distribution will make other hands more profitable, because it forces your opponent to pay off the stronger hands more, if they knew how wide your distribution is. The net result is more money with your strong hands and a bigger total profit.

[/ QUOTE ]

while i like the idea of appearing loose and crazy when in reality you are not, there's a big problem with the logic in the above quote.

case 1. if you are playing against completely unobservant opponents, then, as heis correctly said later in his post, adding a -EV hand decreases your overall winrate.

case 2. if you are playing against an opponent who will adjust more or less correctly, then adding a -EV hand DECREASES YOUR OVERALL WINRATE EVEN MORE than in case 1. this is really obvious, but for some reason it seems very few people realize that.

case 3. the statement in the quote becomes true only if your opponents OVERADJUST.

so to reiterate, the misconception in this quote and numerous other posts is that people often assume that adding -EV hands can improve your winrate as long as your opponents are observant. in reality it improves your winrate only if they are observant and stupid enough to overadjust.

btw, i'm not saying heis doesn't realize that but the statement that he made in that quote is a bit misleading.

also, i don't know which of the three cases happens more often, it's possible that in reality case 3 is for some reason the most prevalent and that's why this whole shania thing works. but before you start making -EV moves for shania's sake, make sure you understand what i said about case 2.

[yourface]

ok which one of ya'll put 65% button raise and 40% co raise?!
don't make me come over there

[rzk]

[ QUOTE ]
About 35 and 53 FWIW. Assuming low rake and unknow blinds in a 1-2 chip structure

[/ QUOTE ]

you open with Q2s, J4s, T7o, K4o etc. otb?

[Oink]

To be honest I dont have a clear range in my head as I have with UTG and HJ.

But Q2s and J4s are usually opens altho J4s is at the bottom end vs unknowns.

I only open T7o and K4o if blinds are bad or too tight. (25/18 nits [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img])

A default range is prolly around

22+,A2s+,K2s+,Q2s+,J4s+,T5s+,95s+,85s+,75s+,64s+,5 4s,A2o+,K6o+,Q7o+,J8o+,T8o+,97o+,87o,76o,65o

EDIT: If the blinds are tough LAGs I will tighten up quite a bit. Then Q2s and J4s goes into the muck and I prolly end up playing

22, Ax, K3s, K7o, Q5s, Q8o, J6s, J9o, T8s, T9o, 97s, 98o, 86s, 87o, 76s, 65s

[rzk]

interesting. assuming an unknown sb, how often would bb have to defend for you to stop raising 97o-,87o-,J5s-,T6s-,Q4s-? (no other info on bb is available). also what hands would you steal with if your opponent was pretty much your clone?

EDIT: i think you partly answered my first question, but could you give an approximate maximum fold bb to steal percentage for you to stop raising the hands i mentioned (give or take a few hands)?

god i really have to lag it up [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

EDIT EDIT: i rephrased my second question.

[BubbleMint]

[ QUOTE ]
My impression is that in practice many (though by no means all) players who play a 30/20 style give up much of their shania edge by making poor decisions when they are running badly. I know that I've played against some LAGTAGs who look absolutely great when the cards are coming in the favor -- extracting the max while losing the least -- but then I play them again later when they are having a bad session and they literally spew back most of that EV right there.

I know that I've been guilty of that behavior myself.

So I think your psychological state of mind should also be a factor. If you're running bad and not playing your A game, if you can't get away from the table, you should at least tighten up because (1) your edge on the marginal hands is probably non-existent at that moment; and (2) the extra variance is going to increase the chance you start doing some really stupid monkey tilting.

Please take these words of wisdom from someone who ends up playing like a donkey a lot now for no good reason. :|

[/ QUOTE ]

QFMFT

[Heisenb3rg]

[ QUOTE ]
case 2. if you are playing against an opponent who will adjust more or less correctly, then adding a -EV hand DECREASES YOUR OVERALL WINRATE EVEN MORE than in case 1. this is really obvious, but for some reason it seems very few people realize that.

case 3. the statement in the quote becomes true only if your opponents OVERADJUST.

so to reiterate, the misconception in this quote and numerous other posts is that people often assume that adding -EV hands can improve your winrate as long as your opponents are observant. in reality it improves your winrate only if they are observant and stupid enough to overadjust.



[/ QUOTE ]

No this isnt what im saying.

Adding very barely -EV hands to your distribution CAN increase your winrate if your opponents adjust perfectly.

adding super super marginal hands forces your oppponets to call down a lot more and re-raise more for value.

After this strategic adjustment these hands become borderline, but the other strong hands in your distributions increase their winrate.

Therefore the total winrate is higher.

Of course in practise, people dont know your distribution. They guess it. Therefore, adding those -EV hands always are pointless because they wont change your opponents strategy to counterbalance them. Only play them enough so your opponents think you always play them.

Im also talking very very marginally -EV hands that are hard to disguish between 0 EV and -EV but are technically -EV.

There is sort of a grey region of marginal hands that we suspect are barely +EV or barely -EV.. But really .. we dont know.

Also, it depends on the hand you add to your distrubution.
The key is to have a well balanced distribution that hits a variety of flops and is hard to read. Therefore, if your range is really ace + high card heavy, and you add a borderline ace hand to your range, chances are it will weaken your distrbution rather than strengthen.

A correct strategy now attacks ace high flops LESS, and attack coordinated middle boards more. This does not benefit your ace high hands if your range is currently ace high heavy.