A few hands from someone trying to learn

StumpyJoe · #1 02-11-2006, 11:12 PM

Hi, I'm a recovering bonus whore trying to improve my game and move up limits. I have ready SSH and now I'm working my way through it again trying to understand all of it. I'm hoping you will forgive me for posting some hands that might seem obvious to you.

I've been playing mainly 2/4 and 3/6 at Party, Poker Stars, and Pacific.

My stats are:
55000 hands
VPIP = 14.15%
PFR = 6.4%
W$SF = 27.87%
W$SD = 57.31%
Aggression factor (not incl. preflop) = 2.67
BB/100 = -0.33

I know that I need to increase my VPIP and my PFR. I'm working on that.

I have been reviewing all of my hands with the biggest losses.

Before posting some hands, I have one general question. Should I be betting my medium strength draws or just call with them assuming I have odds? Ex: 9To on a flop of 78K rainbow?

Ok, now for a couple of hands where I think I should have folded to aggression.

Hand 1:

Villain is 19/10.5

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero calls, 2 folds, Button raises, 2 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (5.50 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero raises, Button calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero calls.

River: (8.75 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10.75 BB

Hand 2:

Villain is an unknown.

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 3 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, SB folds.

Turn: (4 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 caps, Hero calls.

River: (12 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 14 BB

Hand 3:

Villain is 22.6/7.8

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $2.
3 folds, MP2 calls, CO (poster) checks, 1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, MP2 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (7 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP2 folds, CO calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, CO calls.

River: (6.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB

Hand 4:

Villain is 27.2/12.7

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, MP1 calls, 5 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, MP1 raises, BB folds, Hero 3-bets, MP1 calls.

Turn: (6.25 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP1 raises, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 9.25 BB

Thanks for any input,
Stumpy Joe

Etric · #2 02-12-2006, 12:46 AM

Post flop aggression stats help with reads, so maybe you will want to include them next time.

Hand 1: I play the same way

Hand 2: I bet/call the turn and check/call the river if I want to show the hand down (if I think the bettor might have some crazy two pair from the blind). Vs a passive player, I might bet/fold the turn. The turn was pretty much spew, as any 7 beats you, spades beat you, and any spade has a redraw to beat you on the river.

Hand 3: I would bet the river here. Checking lets him bet hands that beat you and show down marginal hands for free.

Hand 4: I would bet/call, bet/call, check/call against an unknown. I want to show this down HU. The play changes vs passive/aggressive players postflop. Use your opponents aggression factors to help determine your play!

Nick C · #3 02-12-2006, 01:29 AM

Hand 1: I'm more inclined to 3-bet the turn than to fold. I'm thinking an overpair or AJ is more likely than a flush or the mathematically improbable JJ/99.

I guess 55 and 22 can't be ruled out, though, since Villain may have been isolating the limper. Also, it would suck to be 3-bet by a flush, if Villain happens to have one. So your turn and river plays seem okay to me.

Preflop, I'm not crazy about the open-limp from MP2, but I don't think it's awful or anything. I probably would have raised or folded, though. (From UTG-UTG+2, there's a good chance I would open-limp the hand, if the table was somewhat loose and not too aggressive. And from EP, I wouldn't open-raise unless the table was very tight, in which case I'd probably leave the table soon.)

Hand 2: It looks like you may have walked into a slowplayed flush, but I think you did okay. Villain could have a set or 65s or something instead.

I think the question is more whether or not you should 3-bet the turn than whether or not you should find a fold. Since so many people saw the flop, a flopped flush is more likely than usual, and I might hesitate. (Also, 97 now makes a better straight, as does, actually, 74.)

Hand 3: Bet-folding the river is another option, but if Villain is aggressive postflop and might raise with a worse hand, check-calling does gain appeal.

As a poster, Villain's range should be wider than usual. Unfortunately, this increases the number of hands with an ace that he could hold. Still, if he makes loose calldowns, a hand like 54s is certainly possible (especially once we take the turned gutshot that hand would have into account), as are worse pocket pairs than yours.

That said, I wouldn't be happy about being called on the turn. If Villain was passive and not especially loose postflop, I think check-folding the river becomes a consideration. Villain is calling with two aces on board, and with his better pocket pairs, you'd expect a preflop raise. But he could be optimistically hoping you have KQ.

Hand 4: Yeah, you were probably beat. I suppose JJ is possible and some other hands too, if Villain is tricky postflop. But you've represented what you have pretty clearly, and Villain should really expect you to fold (I'm guessing most Stars 2/4 players don't fold KK here).

Edit: The frustrating thing is that you very nearly had the odds to call, if Villain had QJ. If there's any chance he's overrepresenting a hand like A9 or 77 or JJ now and will check behind on the river, then I might peel, since versus QJ (which isn't at all unlikely) you'll go on to win nearly often enough. But I suppose he's probably going to fire again on the river with the hands I mentioned instead. He certainly shouldn't expect JJ or 77 or A9 to win unimproved at showdown, so checking behind on the river would be like conceding the pot, and most players who've put in this much action so far don't like to do that.

Sandberg · #4 02-12-2006, 03:05 AM

Hand 1: Fold Preflop. I have no problem with the way you played it otherwise. villain will have something AA or KK or even AJ enough to make it worth your while though I suppose it's better than 50% likely he has you beat.

Hand 2: I think you need to fold to the raise on the turn. Unless you think the opposition is extremely aggressive. Given no reads, I think you have to assume he is flushed out here. This is how many low limit players play made flushes. FWIW, I'd probably play it similar to how you play it but I'm trying to fold more in this situation.

Hand 3: No problems. Perfectly played from what I can see.

Hand 4: I'm sure I'd have called down (this is a leak in my game) but I think you played it right. There are a lot of good draws on the flop and some of them come in on the turn, futhermore, it is possible that your opponent has a ten.

Also, I say bet or raise on the flop in the example you provided in the opening paragraph. An open ended straight draw on a rainbow flop has big time implied odds and you need to exploit them. Lots of good things can happen by betting or raising flops in this situation.

Dagger78 · #5 02-12-2006, 03:11 AM

Often you should be betting or raising with solid draws for a) value, if any. b) free cards c) to buy pair outs(especially true if your draw contains overcards)

Hand 1. fold preflop, I know you want to open up, but this is a hand you want to see a pot multiway and you're already in MP2 with no one in the pot.

Given that you played the hand played I like it. You'll see overpairs here semi-often. Most agressivbe oppenents(assuming he is one) will 3 bet the flop with a flush draw here.

Hand 2. If he shows a flush that sucks. I'm very tempted to NOT 3-bet this turn. Depends on the aggressiveness of the raiser.

Hand 3. Bet the river, checking doesn't save you a bet unless you're folding(which you aren't), and betting gets a call from all the small pairs he probably won't bet. You can fold to a raise unless it's a maniac.

Hand 4. 3-betting the turn is spewing here. You're going to be beaten alot here, although probably not enough to warrant folding, but certainly enough to call down and not re-raise.

Dagger78 · #6 02-12-2006, 03:18 AM

I may consider also only posting one or two hands at a time. Alot of people don't like to respond to all 4 hands at once and won't respond at all. Although in this case you're getting some excellent responses. Just a thought.

Good Luck and avoid Party 2/4 its a TAG fest [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Nick C · #7 02-12-2006, 03:23 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 4: Yeah, you were probably beat. I suppose JJ is possible and some other hands too, if Villain is tricky postflop. But you've represented what you have pretty clearly, and Villain shouldn't really expect you to fold (I'm guessing most Stars 2/4 players don't fold KK here).

Edit: The frustrating thing is that you very nearly had the odds to call, if Villain had QJ. If there's any chance he's overrepresenting a hand like A9 or 77 or JJ now and will check behind on the river, then I might peel, since versus QJ (which isn't at all unlikely) you'll go on to win nearly often enough. But I suppose he's probably going to fire again on the river with the hands I mentioned instead. He certainly shouldn't expect JJ or 77 or A9 to win unimproved at showdown, so checking behind on the river would be like conceding the pot, and most players who've put in this much action so far don't like to do that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jeez. Here I am, fixing my own post, and it's too late to edit.

StumpyJoe · #8 02-12-2006, 11:20 AM

Thanks for responding everyone. From your comments, I think I'm being too aggressive in borderline situations. I agree that I was spewing at certain points. Also, while I need to loosen up, I need to pick my spots.

I don't seem to be hitting my draws lately so I'm becomming afraid to bet or raise them.

I'll limit myself to posting one or two hands and I'll include aggression factor in the future.

Thanks,
StumpyJoe