Some "More" Notes on Notes (vetran post, long but worth it)

[nomadtla]

-How often have you seen a pooh-bah or C/T ask what read a poster has on a villain before deciding a certain line?
OR
-How often have you been at a table with "Ipoopmyself" to your right and the Turn pairs the board and he donkbets into you? You look at his stats 35/9/1.5 and then you poop yourself because you don't know what he'd do that with.
OR
-How often have you been checked to and the board texture makes you worry about a check/raise.

I have a solution to all these problems and more: Get Reads, and Take notes

Easier said then done, I know. So I will try and put some ideas out there to help you now that I have reached veteran status, and put some thought into this process. I was told In this thread that I had good notes. At that time I just had a system but still didn't take many notes. But that comment by Voracious made me really fine tune my system, and use it more often.

The Basic Rules:
1-They must be useful to you. (Find the things that give you trouble the most often. Then figure out a way to get notes about players who do those things.)
2- They must be easy to take while at the table, and fit in notes space allowed. (Obviously you can write as furiously as you like and not get all the info in a hand, even with a good system you won't get it all.)
3-They must be understandable by you easily. (If you have to read through a whole Word document, the info is not good in the 20 sec you have, or if you can't understand what you typed then why type it.)
4-Use all the resources you have (Stats help, and PT allows you to import and export your notes so you don't always have to take them that instant.)
5-Not everyone needs to be analyzed. (Some donks you will never see again, try and spend most of your effort on those you've seen before and will probably see again. Along with that the good players are the ones who stick around, the ones you see more often, and the ones who have a better ability to cut into your win rate.)
6-Do not make fun of players in your notes. (Sure, it relieves tension to type "WTFBBQ Donktastic Goat[censored]" or "ATM" in your notes, but that will not tell you anything except that he put a beat on you one time. Plus that may increase tilt rather then relieve it by encouraging you to play to their level. Yell at the screen all you like but keep your notes in the realm of helpful things.)

Some ideas and my system:
The first thing you need to get out of your head is that you can get it all down. If you can just get one or two notes every ten minutes or so it will add up especially if you focus on the right things and the right players.
PT does a lot to help us set up a range of hands based on VPIP/PFR, but if you have a post-flop read that tells you this guy acts a certain way in certain situations. You may push a call to a fold or a fold to a raise, just by eliminating or adding a few hands to his range because of your reads. Remember anything that can save or make you even a fraction of a BB/100 hands ups your win rate and adds up quick.

-<u>What can PT do to help?</u>
Several things, of course PA-HUD and GT+ give us numbers up front. But we can also export other stats as well that will go into your player notes on the sites that are set up for this. You can find the import/export window by clicking the icon that looks like a notepad (between the compact a DB icon, and the change color settings icon). If you use another tracking system you will have to find out how to use that system's import/export feature if it has one.

You can export all these stats and a few more, and organize them how you like:


As you can see you can fit a lot of info in just 6 lines. Most of these stats can be displayed with PA-HUD, but if you’re using GT+ then I suggest exporting any stats that are important to you. Even with PA-HUD I've found that exporting the top 10 hands a player has raised with to be very helpful. I suggest exporting for all players with 50+ hands in your database. With that many hands you have at least seen them for a full session if not more then one. But stats can only take us so far.

-<u>So what else should I do?</u>
--Learn to abbreviate:
Create your own language to get your point across with as little typing as possible and still be understandable. I find sticking to broader descriptions more important then laying out specifics. So here's a list of abbreviations I use.
For hands they hold:
Xh = X high (with X being the value of their highest hole card) *** OC = over card *** 2OC = two over cards *** OP = over pair (pocket pair) *** UP = under pair (pocket pair) *** MP = middle pair (sometimes BP for bottom pair) *** TP = top pair (TK after means top kicker, MK means medium kicker, and WK means weak kicker)*** 2P = two pair *** T2P = top two pair *** 3 = trips (when pair is on board) *** S = set *** FH = full house (T or B can be added for top or bottom FH) *** St = a straight *** F = flush (With a D after either if they were still drawing when action occurred, OEStD &amp; IStD are open ended or inside straight draws. With an N before it means it was the nut straight or flush if it doesn't have the N it was not. With an OC before it means it was a one card straight or flush) I put a * next to any hand that they don't have explicit pot odds to make a call with.

Situations and actions: I put these in parenthesis behind the hand they hold
db = donkbet *** tb = three bet *** cp = cap *** bs = blind steal situations *** bd = blind defense situations *** hu = heads up pot *** sb&amp;vsb = scary board, and very scary board (based on how scary the board is compared to the strength of their hand) *** asa = after serious aggression (if they persist after being raised or in a pot where a few people like their hand etc...) *** bp&amp;lp = big pot, and little pot *** c = continuation bet (if they continued action not because their hand improved but because they were the aggressor on the previous round) *** c/r = check/raise *** ac/r = after being check/raised (how they responded to the check/raise) *** sp = slow played *** fc = free card play *** $ = any actions they took when short stacked
What street they made their hand: This is necessary when you see how my notes are set up. I put them before the hand.
f = flopped the hand *** t = turned the hand *** r = made it on the river

So:
t2P(db,sb,hu) = turned two pair which they donkbet heads-up on a scary board
tOCIStD&amp;OC($,c/r,bp) = check/raised with a turned, one card inside straight draw and an over card in a big pot when they were short stacked

--Figure out a system and stick to it:
I will show you mine to hopefully give some ideas and you can take it from there.
First off I have a blank copy of my system saved. It looks like this.
[ QUOTE ]

BlindDef:
BlindStl:
BF:
RF:
CF:
B/F-F:
BT:
RT:
BR:
RR:
C/RS:
C/RW:
CDW:
(SC)FTC/R:
Other:


[/ QUOTE ]
I keep it saved as a WordPad file on my desktop so when I want to start a set of notes on a player at the table I just open up the blank notes and copy/paste this blank sheet into that players notes. Then I begin taking notes.

Lines 1&amp;2: In the blinds - Maybe not the most important stuff but can be very helpful saving a bet here or there in important situations. This is usually the only place I put specific starting hands (like A5o) and only used if I see their hand at showdown.
BlindDef: = What hands a player defends blinds with. PT keeps stats on how often a player defends. But this way you can see what kinds of hands they defend with.
BlindStl: = What hands do they try and steal blind with when the opportunity comes around.

Lines 3-6: Flop play - This has the most categories because the flop has a lot to do with what line you take for the rest of the hand.
BF = What hands do they bet the flop with (set, top pair, flush draw, Ace high)
RF = What hands do they raise the flop with.
CF = What hands do they just call the flop with. (either chasing something, or as a slow play)
B/F-F = How often they bet/fold the flop, may be helpful to steal a pot here and there when the time is right, or see those that are continuation betting but folding to any resistance.

Lines 4-7: Turn and River play is essentially the same as the flop categories. But I just have a category for what they bet and raise with.

Lines 8&amp;9: What does a check/raise mean from this player.
C/RS = A check/raise that coincides with sound strategy, either to eliminate, get more money in or trap people. (flopped set c/r PFR, flush draw c/r trapping players for value)
C/RW = A check/raise that coincides with weak play (usually all out bluffs on scare cards) These are hard to find because they rarely make showdown but I count it when a player c/r then folds to a 3 bet. I represent this with an X if the hand doesn't make it to showdown.

Line 10: What do they call all the way to showdown. Tells you how close you have to be to the nuts to value bet them on the river. Very Important
CDW = Sometimes specific hands they take all the way un-improved (like AKo or a pocket pair) but also MP or TP(vsb)

Line 11: Use with caution
(SC)FTC/R = How often they fold to a check/raise on a scare card. May help you steal a pot or two with a well timed semi-bluff if they do this too often.

Line 12: Any other pertinent information like "table coach", "taps the fish tank", "hit and run lag", "multi-tabler", "varies play depending on opponent", 2+2 names, pretty much anything.

An example: the name has been made up to protect my buddy-list [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
[ QUOTE ]

[username = Ipoopmyself]
{{DESC: Semi-Loose Aggressive/Aggressive (sLA-A)
TOT HANDS: 128 - VP$IP: 23 - PFR: 7.0 - WSD: 53
AF-TOT: 2.2 - AF-F: 3.8 - AF-T: 1.5 - AF-R: 1.3
WF-F: 4.7 - WF-T: 2.3 - WF-R: 3.1 - FRB: 36.4
CCPF: 2 - ASB: 100 - FSB: 0 - FBB: 0
RAISE WITH: 99(1) Q2s(1) KK(1) AKo(1) AKs(1)
BlindDef: A5o, 78s,
BlindStl: Q2s, A6o
BF: Qh(c,bs,sb), TPWK,
RF: Qh(tb,ac/r,bs,sb), FD,
CF: ISD*, BP&amp;OC*, Jh&amp;OCFD(sb),
B/F-F: X,
BT: tFD(db), tOCIStD&amp;OC($,db,bp), TPWK
RT: Ah(bd,vsb), fS(sp, bp), tOCIStD&amp;OC($,tb,bp)
BR: MP(bp), fNF(db,sp,lp)
RR: OCF(hu), TPWK(ac/r,vsb)
C/RS: fFD, fTP
C/RW: X,X,X,MP(sc),
CDW: 99(vsb), AKs(sb), MP(vsb)
(SC)FTC/R:
Other: multi-tabler, 2+2 name Housecalls(j/k Jay)}}


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes it may look like a mess but once you get used to your system it's a lot easier to read then you think. The top 6 lines are stats from PT, just to show how PT will export it all. But if I sit down at this table and open my notes on this player I can quickly see: This player doesn't fully understand board texture and pot size. They call down with some UI premiums and weak made hands. Knows how to check/raise but it's more likely a sign of weakness. They like to donkbet when their hand improves. They take blind-steal/defense situations a bit far. Is not scared by scare cards but may use then to scare others. May play more tables then they can handle given their stats and call downs.

*Note that I don't lay out specific hole cards or boards very often since laying them out makes you have to look at that board again and rethink your read. I want a simple note that tells me in a broad spectrum how this player acts.

Now I know what to do but how do you do it all?
It is very stressful to try and keep up with 18+ players (2FR tables) so don't. Focus on the players you have more then 50 hands with. When you sit down pick one or two players a table that you've seen before, and seem to give you trouble on a regular basis. Just try to get one solid note per-table each orbit.

-Steps to good note taking:
1-Develop a system and abbreviations that work for you. Feel free to use mine or vary it to best fit your needs. There is another system Found Here that I used for a while. I found it buried deep in the Bison's notes on notes thread. It's a good system and I used some of it for a while but it wasn't really right for me.

2-Always keep a blank copy of your system handy. Either as a WordPad file where you can get to it quickly, or in your PT general description as notes on yourself.

3-If you have Poker Ace-HUD use the show all mucked cards and show previous hand features constantly. If not keep your instant hand history windows for each table somewhere you can get to quick to see mucked cards and action on the previous hand.

4-I like to auto rate at 50+ hands simply so an icon shows up right when they hit that level. The auto rate you chose is of little value comparatively. If you want to just auto rate a smiley on all the players you have 50+ hands on that works too. This tells me I have seen them for a while and should consider starting notes on them. I do sometimes take notes on players less then 50 for particularly bad play, but I rarely focus my attention on them.

5-Copy/paste your system into their note section when you feel you want to start taking notes on them. Then begin taking notes.

**If the site you are on does not have import/export from PT skip to step 9**

6-When you finish your session. Close down your poker server (this saves the notes you've taken as a *.txt file on your hard drive). Then go to PT and select the import function.

7-Add to your notes away from the tables. When you are reviewing your own sessions (which you should do regularly) take a note or two on the players who were in that session with you. This way you can take your time and add some solid notes for the next time you see them.

8-When you finish your session review export the notes with whatever stats you like as well. Make sure you check the box to export your general description so PT exports your notes with the stats. This will save the exported notes in the same place that your poker server saves them so the next time you open the server it reads off the exported notes.

9-The next time you sit at a few tables to play. Open up any notes that show for any players that are at your table. This way the read is refreshed in your head while you're at the table with them. Do this while you wait to post your blind or as soon as you can once you're settled at the table.

10-Open the notes as needed for a hand you play with them or to add more notes.

11-Profit


Bonus Features
-Taking notes will make you pay more attention at the tables.
-When doing your own session reviews you may start to think "What notes would I take on me this hand", and this may help you find leaks.
-As you move up players get more and more tight but not necessarily more solid. You must take notes to learn their weaknesses.
-Your mind will get used to storing some of this info and before you know it you're taking some notes subconsciously or checking your notes less.

Well that's about all I got, and frankly I think it's a good start.

So let me know what you think and feel free to post any questions or comments for me or others about note taking in this thread?

I will accept royalties if you use my system PM me for my Stars account so you can transfer me $$$$$ [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] j/k

Thomas

P.S.
Glossary
Now before someone asks.
-This is how I define a scary board. - A board that shows two solid signs of beating their hand, and a very scary board is any board that offers more then two solid ways to beat their hand

So if they have 99 on an A683(rainbow) board would not classify as scary, but if 3 were of the same suit then yes, they can be beat by the ace or the flush. If it were A345 with 3 of a suit then it is very scary.

If they have a two card flush then a double paired board would be scary, if it's a one card flush then a pair on board makes a full house possible plus every card that they are from the nuts adds an element of danger.

If they have a straight then a pair on board and three of a suit would make it scary, or four of a suit would make it very scary. Or if they have the bottom end of the straight then that adds an element of danger.

I hope that helps explain what situations I use "sb&amp;vsb" for.

- And I define short stacked as anytime a player has less then 7 BB for the table. I know 12 is the necessary but most weak players don't start acting different till they're down to about 7.