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Old 10-30-2007, 06:07 PM
Troll_Inc Troll_Inc is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: FGHIJKLM STUVWXYZ
Posts: 2,566
Default Random picking of hands from a database

I would like to choose random hands from a list of net poker hand results (see below).

1. Anyone know how to do this in Excel? There is the "Random Number Generator" in Excel, but I can't figure out how to use it for this purpose.

2. If not Excel, what is the easiest way to do this? Someone know of a website for this?


bb_won
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  #2  
Old 10-30-2007, 06:54 PM
Noodles. Noodles. is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 395
Default Re: Random picking of hands from a database

Thank you for listing the whole list, I enjoyed reading it. I have chosen the following list (randomly!):
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
The method I used: (No Excel needed)
Throw dice. You now have a completely random number. Take the item from your list with that number, as many times as you want (Remember, the number was random!)

Try it out!
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  #3  
Old 10-30-2007, 07:01 PM
Troll_Inc Troll_Inc is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: FGHIJKLM STUVWXYZ
Posts: 2,566
Default Re: Random picking of hands from a database

[ QUOTE ]
Thank you for listing the whole list, I enjoyed reading it. I have chosen the following list (randomly!):
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
The method I used: (No Excel needed)
Throw dice. You now have a completely random number. Take the item from your list with that number, as many times as you want (Remember, the number was random!)

Try it out!

[/ QUOTE ]


This won't work. There are more than 12 numbers.

I would like to do something like 30 samples at 50,000 numbers each.
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  #4  
Old 10-30-2007, 07:57 PM
_dave_ _dave_ is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 2,628
Default Re: Random picking of hands from a database

It would probably be easier to pull them from the database directly - or you could use some of that WSH scripting to pick random cells from Excel.

There must be a way to do it from excel itself, probably with VBA - I don't know enough to tell you how to do it in that way.

Maybe xpost in CTH? - there are lurking excel gurus in there on occasion [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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  #5  
Old 10-30-2007, 08:52 PM
jukofyork jukofyork is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Leeds, UK.
Posts: 2,551
Default Re: Random picking of hands from a database

[ QUOTE ]
It would probably be easier to pull them from the database directly - or you could use some of that WSH scripting to pick random cells from Excel.

There must be a way to do it from excel itself, probably with VBA - I don't know enough to tell you how to do it in that way.

Maybe xpost in CTH? - there are lurking excel gurus in there on occasion [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
Create a new column of random numbers and sort using them, then pick however many you want from the top of the randomly sorted list.

To create the random column, just use "=Rand()" which will create reals in the range {0..1}, then double click the "magic" excel duplication thingy (not sure what it's called...).

Juk [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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  #6  
Old 10-30-2007, 09:02 PM
Troll_Inc Troll_Inc is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: FGHIJKLM STUVWXYZ
Posts: 2,566
Default Re: Random picking of hands from a database

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It would probably be easier to pull them from the database directly - or you could use some of that WSH scripting to pick random cells from Excel.

There must be a way to do it from excel itself, probably with VBA - I don't know enough to tell you how to do it in that way.

Maybe xpost in CTH? - there are lurking excel gurus in there on occasion [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
Create a new column of random numbers and sort using them, then pick however many you want from the top of the randomly sorted list.

To create the random column, just use "=Rand()" which will create reals in the range {0..1}, then double click the "magic" excel duplication thingy (not sure what it's called...).

Juk [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a clever idea, but if I understand it correctly, you will only pick each number just once?

This is more of a probability density exercise, which I wasn't clear about initially.

I would like a program to go into the list of numbers and select one value, copy it, and then pull it out.

Then repeat on the intact sample (not n-1).

Do a total of "a lot of times", like at least 10,000+.

Then repeat this whole process about 30-40 times.

Your method should do this, but the next question is how, in Excel, I can repeat this (not manually). My understanding is that For/Next, If/Then loops take a long time in Excel [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
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  #7  
Old 10-30-2007, 09:29 PM
jukofyork jukofyork is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Leeds, UK.
Posts: 2,551
Default Re: Random picking of hands from a database

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It would probably be easier to pull them from the database directly - or you could use some of that WSH scripting to pick random cells from Excel.

There must be a way to do it from excel itself, probably with VBA - I don't know enough to tell you how to do it in that way.

Maybe xpost in CTH? - there are lurking excel gurus in there on occasion [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
Create a new column of random numbers and sort using them, then pick however many you want from the top of the randomly sorted list.

To create the random column, just use "=Rand()" which will create reals in the range {0..1}, then double click the "magic" excel duplication thingy (not sure what it's called...).

Juk [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a clever idea, but if I understand it correctly, you will only pick each number just once?

This is more of a probability density exercise, which I wasn't clear about initially.

I would like a program to go into the list of numbers and select one value, copy it, and then pull it out.

Then repeat on the intact sample (not n-1).

Do a total of "a lot of times", like at least 10,000+.

Then repeat this whole process about 30-40 times.

Your method should do this, but the next question is how, in Excel, I can repeat this (not manually). My understanding is that For/Next, If/Then loops take a long time in Excel [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
As sorry, I didn't realize you wanted to re-sample.

I think figuring this out in excel will end up such a pain that just writing a small program which takes a text/csv file as input and outputs another text/csv file with the re-sampled data might be easiest.

I think you can do sampling with replacement from within excel though:

1) You need to first install the "Analysis Tool Pack" which comes with excel - see here: http://www.cpearson.com/excel/ATP.htm

2) Then you need to follow the instructions from here: http://bcs.whfreeman.com/ips4e/suppl...cel/03_IPS.pdf

Sadly, I can't seem to find my MS-Office CD so can't test it myself, but I think it should work.

Juk [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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  #8  
Old 10-30-2007, 09:44 PM
Troll_Inc Troll_Inc is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: FGHIJKLM STUVWXYZ
Posts: 2,566
Default Re: Random picking of hands from a database

[ QUOTE ]

As sorry, I didn't realize you wanted to re-sample.

I think figuring this out in excel will end up such a pain that just writing a small program which takes a text/csv file as input and outputs another text/csv file with the re-sampled data might be easiest.


[/ QUOTE ]

No, my bad, I didn't explain it well.

What computer language would you recommend for writing such a program for someone who would have to learn the language?

p.s. I'll look at the Excel suggestion some more too.
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  #9  
Old 10-30-2007, 09:54 PM
jukofyork jukofyork is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Leeds, UK.
Posts: 2,551
Default Re: Random picking of hands from a database

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

As sorry, I didn't realize you wanted to re-sample.

I think figuring this out in excel will end up such a pain that just writing a small program which takes a text/csv file as input and outputs another text/csv file with the re-sampled data might be easiest.


[/ QUOTE ]

No, my bad, I didn't explain it well.

What computer language would you recommend for writing such a program for someone who would have to learn the language?

p.s. I'll look at the Excel suggestion some more too.

[/ QUOTE ]
In C/C++ it's about 30-50 lines of code and maybe 20-30 mins work at most. You might even be able to write it quite easily in an AHK script?

Give the excel method a try that I posted and if you can't get that to work I'll write you a small program to do what you want using ".csv" files tommorow...

Juk [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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  #10  
Old 10-30-2007, 10:39 PM
Troll_Inc Troll_Inc is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: FGHIJKLM STUVWXYZ
Posts: 2,566
Default Re: Random picking of hands from a database

OK, that .pdf totally worked.
A+++++


But I'd like to do this 30-40 times.
So I tried to make it a macro.
Write the results to column D (starting at cell D11).
Then insert a column so that it moves to the right and I can repeat.

This line is given as an error in my macro:
Application.Run "ATPVBAEN.XLA!Sample", ,ActiveSheet.Range("$D$11"), "R" _, 1000, True

I get Runtime Error 1004.
ATPVBAEN.XLA could no be found.

So it works onetime, but not in a macro...oh well beggars can't be choosers!

***********************
Sub Sampling1()
'
' Sampling1 Macro
' Macro recorded 10/30/2007 by wks46
'
' Keyboard Shortcut: Ctrl+s
'
Application.Run "ATPVBAEN.XLA!Sample", , ActiveSheet.Range("$D$11"), "R" _
, 1000, True
End Sub
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