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#1
10-10-2007, 04:33 PM
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Shoulders
So, I'm really confused about the best way to train shoulders. I've read lots of contradictory stuff from the experts.
The last thing that made me think of this was the Question of Strength by CP - http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1754646 aside from the dumb lateral raise bombing suggestion, he says people with lagging shoulders can train them up to 3 times a week, which is something that I've seen recommended elsewhere. I've also read that you shouldn't really do a "shoulder day" at all, I've seen it on a lot of Physical Therapist sites and this "Shoulder Savers" article which is pretty good : http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1053531 "8 weeks to Monster Shoulders" is sort of in between, they do a mix of shoulder-specific and general upper body movements, mostly light weight and high rep. http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=818555 Then in the other extreme there are people who say shoulders are just like any other muscle and you should do big weights in the hypertrophy zone. These people would mainly advocate big lifts like military presses, chins and dips. For example, "The Shoulder Training Bible" is basically a heavy-weight and high-volume shoulder bombing routine : http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1578184 I've got tons of physical therapy references, and they mainly advocate doing very light high volume shoulder work and doing it 3 times a week. On the other hand, part of the reason people recommend to avoid a shoulder day is because your primary routines like bench press and deadlift can be dangerous if your shoulder stabilizers are fatigued. It seems like there's a serious risk of overtraining them which would lead to injury. What's going on with shoulders? I'm very confused. In particular, for someone whose shoulder strength is dangerously lagging, what should they do to get them strong? 
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#2
10-10-2007, 05:00 PM
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Re: Shoulders
I've always had healthy shoulders and my shoulder strength has always been good, so I may not be a good person for this (aside from being full of it, to begin with)-- because I think a lot of people take a bit of a risk with shoulder training. But a few thoughts:
I think the push-up is a great exercise for developing core and shoulder strength. I know it isn't actually developing strength-- but I think the endurance helps lay the ground work for the "shoulder girdle." And also, for you beauty contestants, folks who can do a lot of push-ups tend to have good shoulder development. I also like overhead pressing. I've never done the lateral raises, and I've always eyed them/variants with suspicion-- despite the success/prominence of them in BB programs. As for frequency. I think you can do different push-up routines a few times a week, and go heavy overhead 1-1.5x a week. It seems to me there is real genius in the simple programs popular on the net right now.
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#3
10-10-2007, 05:19 PM
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Re: Shoulders
[ QUOTE ]
I've never done the lateral raises, and I've always eyed them/variants with suspicion-- despite the success/prominence of them in BB programs. [/ QUOTE ] I think lateral raises are fine (when done 30 degrees in front of the body, and with the elbows never going above the shoulders), but the thing about them is most people are way ahead in their anterior deltoid development compared to the rest of the shoulder, so isolating & bombing that particular part of the shoulder makes absolutely no sense.
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#4
10-10-2007, 05:55 PM
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Re: Shoulders
A nice thing about push-ups is that, while they don't grow strength very fast and seem to have a very low limit for the maximum strength they produce, virtues come out of that too. Growing into an exercise slowly gives your tendons and ligaments time to develop really well, and to get good capillary growth nourishing the muscle. That sets you up nicely for future growth.
Plus, it's kind of cool that you can rattle them off virtually anywhere, and that they can give your muscles a nice stretch too.
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#5
10-10-2007, 06:15 PM
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Re: Shoulders
cbloom,
Doing more of your pulling exercises to your face instead of your navel helps posterior delts immensely. I don't really do shoulder raises. Pressing and doing face pulls pretty much takes care of it for me. My shoulders are a weak point, though whatev, I'll live.
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#10
10-10-2007, 09:16 PM
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Re: Shoulders
I do clean and jerk, kettlebell swings, turkish get ups, and standing push press throughout the week.
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