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  #11  
Old 06-23-2007, 04:39 PM
autobet autobet is offline
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Default Re: Suggested plan to leverage the WTO issue in the senate

[ QUOTE ]


2) outlaw all domestic remote gaming;



[/ QUOTE ]

Does intrastate only remote gambling still qualify as domestic remote gambling (the type to get the U.S. in trouble)?
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  #12  
Old 06-23-2007, 04:50 PM
BluffTHIS! BluffTHIS! is offline
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Default Re: Suggested plan to leverage the WTO issue in the senate

autobet,

For the purposes of the WTO on this issue, it doesn't distinguish between intra-state and inter-state within the U.S. So that means that if Nevada allows phone wagering only by its residents in-state, then that still violates WTO rulings. Although it makes a difference to us here because we have a strong federal system, the WTO again doesn't make that dinstinction unless there is a specific exception made by treaty which there are in some small cases, mostly it seems having to do with dependancies of EU countries or small autonomous regions of various countries.
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  #13  
Old 06-23-2007, 09:37 PM
oldbookguy oldbookguy is offline
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Default Re: Suggested plan to leverage the WTO issue in the senate

you forgot option number 4: Negotiate a limited agreement, perhaps allowing poker / card games only and regulate them as other 'SKILL' card games are already.

see worldwinner.com, AOL Games, MSN Games & YAHOO! Games for cash based 'SKILL' card games.

This seems a likely outcome if any real negotiated deal is made.

obg


[ QUOTE ]
Jay,

In this NYT story on the issue, note the following quote from the USTR:

"Gretchen Hamel, a spokeswoman for the United States trade representative in Washington, said that the office would continue to try to find a mutually satisfactory resolution to the dispute."

Now of course that is BS, as from what I have read of the issue, including your postings here, the US hasn't in fact tried to compromise. Of course it may now, but there is no "continue" because they haven't been trying in the past.

You have posted in the past that the US has 3 options to comply:

1) allow Antigua based companies total access the US remote gaming market;

2) outlaw all domestic remote gaming;

3) negotiate a bi-lateral treaty.


Now #3 basically seems like #1. If it isn't the same, then what difference would there be exactly? And wouldn't it mean also that any other country, even though they didn't join Antigua's case directly, could initiate their own case before the WTO and demand similar treatment? Which again means not just #1, but a super #1 where all foreign companies have access.

What I am saying is that I don't see a negotiated resolution of the situation that basically doesn't involve just wholesale repeal of not only the IUGEA but also the Wire Act as it pertains to foreign companies at least. Or do you envision some other type of trade concessions being given while Antiguan companies still can't access the US remote gaming market?

[/ QUOTE ]
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  #14  
Old 06-23-2007, 09:47 PM
oldbookguy oldbookguy is offline
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Default Re: Suggested plan to leverage the WTO issue in the senate

[ QUOTE ]
To be honest I am surprised that the WTO issue is taken seriously by an important senator. But since it obviously is in view of the possible ramifications for future US interests in the WTO, not to mention possible sanctions, then I would propose that lobbyists for the PPA and ourselves seek to leverage that concern in the following manner.

[/ QUOTE ]

To be precise, the meeting (see letter) was with a representative.

The interest they have at this stage is two fold:
1. What is in it for WV - JOBS as a proposal.
2. What harm will come to WV if the ruling and sanctions are placed? This I have to finalize for them and will post as a follow up to the letter.

One is Japan - steel industry dumping case can be reversed hurting our steel industry.

I need more though and am reading the various WTO cases involving the U S and the filing countries to see what other possible ramifications to WV will be.

I would suggest the same for everyone, find out what damage directly the filing countries can have reversed or modified in their favor V. the U S in your state.

obg
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  #15  
Old 06-23-2007, 10:14 PM
autobet autobet is offline
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Default Re: Suggested plan to leverage the WTO issue in the senate

I mailed letters to my U.S. Senators and Susan Schwab. I also emailed a copy of my letter with a suggestion they email their memberships requesting they send similar letters to the PPA, Full Tilt, Stars, Party and Card Player Mag.

Senator Barbara Boxer
1700 Montgomery Street
Suite 240
San Francisco, CA 94111

Dear Senator Boxer:

I am writing concerning the decision by the WTO on the case brought by Antigua and Barbuda against the United States entitled: “Measure Affecting the Cross-Border Supply of Gambling and Better Services” (WT/DS285). The WTO Appellate Body has found that the U.S. is not in compliance with its WTO obligations with respect to the provision of remote gambling services. Antigua, Costa Rica and the European Union are seeking or planning to seek billions in compensation. My understanding is Antigua has asked the trade body to target American Trademarks and Copyrights if the U.S. refuses to comply.

Besides facing sanctions, failure to comply with the WTO ruling will ruin our credibility around the world. If we refuse to comply, we are setting an example for every other country to follow. When we seek to press countries like China regarding their violations on a wide range of important issues including copyright violations, how can we expect them to comply if we do not lead by example and abide by the rulings of the WTO?

The best type of leadership is done by those who lead by example. I hope the United States steps up and abides by the ruling of the World Trade Organization regarding remote gaming.

Sincerely,
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  #16  
Old 06-23-2007, 11:15 PM
TheMetetron TheMetetron is offline
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Default Re: Suggested plan to leverage the WTO issue in the senate

Boxer couldn't care less.
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  #17  
Old 06-23-2007, 11:18 PM
TheEngineer TheEngineer is offline
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Default Re: Suggested plan to leverage the WTO issue in the senate

[ QUOTE ]
Boxer couldn't care less.

[/ QUOTE ]

Doesn't matter. We still have to write to let her know that voters care about the issue.
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  #18  
Old 06-23-2007, 11:29 PM
Jay Cohen Jay Cohen is offline
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Default Re: Suggested plan to leverage the WTO issue in the senate

[ QUOTE ]
you forgot option number 4: Negotiate a limited agreement, perhaps allowing poker / card games only and regulate them as other 'SKILL' card games are already.

see worldwinner.com, AOL Games, MSN Games & YAHOO! Games for cash based 'SKILL' card games.

This seems a likely outcome if any real negotiated deal is made.

obg


[/ QUOTE ]

I really don't think that's on the table. You seem to be hooked on this "skill" games concept because that's what you enjoy and that's what you think would be the most palatable to Congress. But that's not where Antigua's interests are.

I can't think of one major poker site that is licensed in Antigua or employs people in Antigua. Antigua's online gaming community is made up of sportsbooks and casinos. They are the ones who have supported the country's efforts for the past four years, not poker companies from far away lands.

If the decision means anything, why would Antigua negotiate away their primary business? They won the case for full access, they are in the driver's seat.

Now if you want to say the US doesn't care what the WTO says, then why would the US do anything? Either the decision means something or it doesn't.

I am hopeful that there will be a negotiated settlement. But it's not going to be about giving in to the US's artificial distinctions between types of gaming. Sports, poker, and blackjack all involve an element of skill and an element of luck. We can argue all night the percentages of each.

If it's about skill, then let me know when the US is eliminating scratchers and slots. I can't figure out the skill required for either of those games.
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  #19  
Old 06-23-2007, 11:35 PM
Jay Cohen Jay Cohen is offline
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Posts: 300
Default Re: Suggested plan to leverage the WTO issue in the senate

[ QUOTE ]
Jay,

In this NYT story on the issue, note the following quote from the USTR:

"Gretchen Hamel, a spokeswoman for the United States trade representative in Washington, said that the office would continue to try to find a mutually satisfactory resolution to the dispute."

Now of course that is BS, as from what I have read of the issue, including your postings here, the US hasn't in fact tried to compromise. Of course it may now, but there is no "continue" because they haven't been trying in the past.

You have posted in the past that the US has 3 options to comply:

1) allow Antigua based companies total access the US remote gaming market;

2) outlaw all domestic remote gaming;

3) negotiate a bi-lateral treaty.


Now #3 basically seems like #1. If it isn't the same, then what difference would there be exactly? And wouldn't it mean also that any other country, even though they didn't join Antigua's case directly, could initiate their own case before the WTO and demand similar treatment? Which again means not just #1, but a super #1 where all foreign companies have access.

What I am saying is that I don't see a negotiated resolution of the situation that basically doesn't involve just wholesale repeal of not only the IUGEA but also the Wire Act as it pertains to foreign companies at least. Or do you envision some other type of trade concessions being given while Antiguan companies still can't access the US remote gaming market?

[/ QUOTE ]

A lot has to do with how many other countries let the US give up their commitment in the sector, either for nothing or for something. We'll know more about who put in claims on Monday.

Remember, the UIGEA makes nothing legal or illegal that wasn't the same status the day before. It just adds criminal liabilities to the banks.

Again, without going into details, I can see a fair settlement that would make everyone happy, except the anti-gambling zealots.

And yes, they are full of it when they talk about continiuing the negotiations.
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  #20  
Old 06-23-2007, 11:40 PM
autobet autobet is offline
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Default Re: Suggested plan to leverage the WTO issue in the senate

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Boxer couldn't care less.

[/ QUOTE ]

Doesn't matter. We still have to write to let her know that voters care about the issue.

[/ QUOTE ]

and Feinstein is worse...she is one of the leaders in the Internet safety/regulation club.
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