Coaches and Coaching Sites: Getting a Free Ride?

[GrannyMae]

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whether they are getting a free ride instead of being required to pay for advertising on the site,

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Even if they are why is that a problem?

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this is a joke question, right? you are playing mongoloid's advocate?

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Racism?

Plus his comment is 100% valid.

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do i really have to explain all the reasons why we can't give it away for free? please don't make me.

i'll give you a taste as to why it is bad in this case (other situations have completely different reasons usually).

1. it will open a floodgate for all coaches. you are not going to allow some and not the others, right? when this floodgate is open, we are left with nothing but a spam farm and 2p2 has lost value.

2. it is a "self policing" rule. scamsters and fraudsters are less likely to show their faces under a system where they are in contact with and paying a webmaster (chuck)

3. finally, those that are awful coaches are less likely to try and charge for services, thus keeping most out of the forum.

we had a funny post in the mod forum about this. some joker just started playing in 2006 and wanted to be allowed to mention his services for free. his credentials were PT stats indicating a good RUN, not good play. if this guy were allowed to advertise for free, he might have cost many members a ton of money in the long run. there is a perception that if we allow it at 2P2, then it is legit. did i mention HE STARTED PLAYING IN 2006?????? not legit.

[[Phill]]

But the point is, if people are allowed to ask about coaches, the entire community will regulate that part of it because everyone drives to put down others achievements when it comes to poker.

But if you can just pay $25/month to be able to call yourself a 2+2 approved coach this is obviously leading to a situation where people wont check out coaches because they assume the site will have done so (and could potentially lead to a liability on 2+2's part).

Currently we have a situation where people can play on reputation but no one can find out exactly how good they are either as a player or coach. Id be a pretty bad one imo, but ive 4k+ posts and im relatively well known round here - it wouldnt be hard to play that off with some fake PT stats.

As it happens, the exact opposite of what you said is likely true - and ultimately the best system from a user perspective were to allow people to openly market themselves based on their abilities and not that they paid 2+2 a fee - like any free market the best will succeed and the worst will drop by the wayside.

Basically, if that guy had posted stats that showed he had a good run, he would be utterly crushed by the mods/users.

Maybe the ideal solution is a Coaching Forum, like the Rakeback/Affiliate Forum where paying a fee isnt required, i dunno - but simply banning all discussion of coaches and training sites WONT make them disappear but it will drive them off the radar, thus removing natual safeguards.

[BluffTHIS!]

Phil,

I am just going to make one more reply to you. Firstly, you are ignoring (because it doesn't hurt you financially just as it doesn't hurt the rest of us posters), the fact that those coaches and coaching sites are using the biggest poker forum on the net to get customers, and paying nothing for that customer acquisition, unlike what other persons and companies are required to do.

And secondly, your assertion that there is somehow some safeguards currently mostly isn't true for the reasons I gave earlier, which is that it costs too much for a greater number of posters to read/watch/get taught, that strategy advice, unlike a $20 book, which just results in non-substantive glowing praise mostly, from n00bish posters who don't know good from bad advice.

But the main point is the first one, about getting customers for free off 2+2, especially as other concerns are being charged advertising or sponsorship fees.

[Wires]

and ultimately the best system from a user perspective were to allow people to openly market themselves based on their abilities and not that they paid 2+2 a fee

We disagree here, Phil. I think there is a difference between a user such as myself making a post along the lines of "Can anyone tell me if joeblowcoach.com is worth the money" versus "I'm here to tell you about my new site joeblowcoach.com".

If you are seeking to promote your own affiliate business, coaching site, new book, etc... of course you should be checking with Mat or Mason for permission to make the post. I image, and rightfully so, that most often this will be met with a resounding no.

This is quite different than me as a consumer asking 2+2ers about their experiences using a certain product. Yes it will result in free publicity (good or bad) for the product but to limit these types of discussions would do more harm than good to 2+2.com

For example, discussions about Poker Tracker (usefulness, analysis of data) are important to be able to have at 2+2 and Pat invariably generates some business courtesy of these threads. However I highly doubt he would start a new thread actively promoting PT. If he did it would justifiably result in some form of consequence from the 2+2 powers that be.

[ShakeZula06]

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and ultimately the best system from a user perspective were to allow people to openly market themselves based on their abilities and not that they paid 2+2 a fee

We disagree here, Phil. I think there is a difference between a user such as myself making a post along the lines of "Can anyone tell me if joeblowcoach.com is worth the money" versus "I'm here to tell you about my new site joeblowcoach.com".

If you are seeking to promote your own affiliate business, coaching site, new book, etc... of course you should be checking with Mat or Mason for permission to make the post. I image, and rightfully so, that most often this will be met with a resounding no.

This is quite different than me as a consumer asking 2+2ers about their experiences using a certain product. Yes it will result in free publicity (good or bad) for the product but to limit these types of discussions would do more harm than good to 2+2.com

For example, discussions about Poker Tracker (usefulness, analysis of data) are important to be able to have at 2+2 and Pat invariably generates some business courtesy of these threads. However I highly doubt he would start a new thread actively promoting PT. If he did it would justifiably result in some form of consequence from the 2+2 powers that be.

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I agree with this completely.

Bluff still hasn't shown why it's a "problem" that some smart individuals can provide 2p2's user base with good services and make a profit. All this time I thought the appeal of 2p2 was to help it's users get good at poker.

While we're at it why not get rid of the internet bonuses forum? I mean others have to advertise on 2p2, why should a select group get to free advertising in the IB forum?

[ShakeZula06]

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whether they are getting a free ride instead of being required to pay for advertising on the site,

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Even if they are why is that a problem?

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this is a joke question, right? you are playing mongoloid's advocate?

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No it's not a joke. I see no reason for why we should ban discussion of non-2p2 products just because they haven't paid 2p2 for that right. A lot of 2p2ers are better at poker for hearing about products for the first time here. All this would do would restrict the flow of information regarding those products, and likely make it easier for people to scam others.