Sanity Check Stud/8

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

7 Card Stud High-Low ($2/$4), Ante $0.25, Bring-In $1 (converter)

3rd Street - (0.75 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Seat 3: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 6: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___raises
Seat 7: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___brings-in___calls
Seat 8: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds

Anybody bail on 3rd?

4th Street - (3.75 SB)

Hero: A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___checks
Seat 6: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___checks
Seat 7: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks

5th Street - (1.88 BB)

Hero: A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks
Seat 6: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___checks
Seat 7: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___checks

6th Street - (1.88 BB)


Hero: A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 7: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
fold here?

River - (3.88 BB)

Hero: A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___ I can't fold here. can I?
Seat 6: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] xx___bets

Total pot: (5.88 BB)

[Beavis68]

yes, fold sixth, the pot is tiny. Bet 4th.

[PokerJans]

[ QUOTE ]
yes, fold sixth, the pot is tiny. Bet 4th.

[/ QUOTE ]

I concur

[Micturition Man]

You should seriously, seriously, open-complete on 3rd.

[2461Badugi]

[ QUOTE ]
yes, fold sixth, the pot is tiny. Bet 4th.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup. Also, bet fourth, bet fourth, and bet fourth.

I don't like openlimping in LMP either.

[HOWMANY]

Complete third bet fourth fold sixth

[Andy B]

Raise third. Bet fourth, fer cryin' out loud. I'd fold sixth. Why would you even consider folding the river?

[SweetLuckyMe]

Complete 3rd (limping is very weak unless table is full of calling station fish), bet 4th and 5th. If it were still 3 handed on 6th (it wouldn't have been) you fold there.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Thanks for the good responses.

I did call the river. He rivered a better 8 than mine and scooped.

Too weak on 4th, I agree. What surprised me the most was the unanimity of the opinion that I should complete on 3rd. I never limp with any 6 or better, but usually have drawn the line at rough 7s. The strength of the response the other way will get me to change that attitutde when I have an A in the hole, which I assume is the main reason for completing.

[Micturition Man]

[ QUOTE ]
What surprised me the most was the unanimity of the opinion that I should complete on 3rd. I never limp with any 6 or better, but usually have drawn the line at rough 7s. The strength of the response the other way will get me to change that attitutde when I have an A in the hole, which I assume is the main reason for completing.

[/ QUOTE ]


This is a very basic principle of gambling that a lot of stud 8 players don't seem to understand.

Unless you have a really great hand, you are much better off stealing the antes and bring-in than playing your hand out.

In your specific situation, as in most situations, you are far from guaranteed to steal the antes, but it doesn't really matter since your hand is quite solid heads-up, and decent multiway.

So the downside of completing and failing to steal, if there is one, is quite small. And even if you don't steal you may well get called by a worse hand.

That last point raises another concept a lot of stud 8 players don't seem to get, which is that in heads up pots bigger low cards are generally favorites over lower low cards.

For example A76 is a small favorite over 345, even though by conventional rankings 345 would be a better hand.

It's not that limping rather than completing in these spots is a big mistake compared to blatant later street errors, it's just that it is fundamentally unsound, yet very very common.