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  #11  
Old 02-26-2007, 10:55 PM
pete fabrizio pete fabrizio is offline
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Default Re: Coping with ADD

[ QUOTE ]
There are cures for ADD/ADHD/OCD. One doesn't have to "cope" for a lifetime. The cures don't involve drugs. The cures do involve aggressively treating the source of the problem.

(Drugs just treat symptoms)

[/ QUOTE ]

Explain?
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  #12  
Old 02-26-2007, 11:20 PM
WhoIam WhoIam is offline
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Default Re: Coping with ADD

I've found poker to be the ideal job for me because I'm able to start and stop at will. My sessions are short (30-60 minutes) by 2+2 standards but my break in between sessions can be as simple as going downstairs to get a glass of water. Generally I need to consume a lot of coffee (or other stimulants when available) in order to really concentrate on the game and play a large number of tables. Music helps with this too. If this isn't possible, I'll drop down a limit and play 4 tables while watching TV or surfing the net.

Although I'll sometimes take days off if I don't feel like playing, I generally have a good work ethic. I play for at least a few hours nearly every day and regularly read/post in the strategy forums and watch Cardrunners videos. The one thing I need to work on in this area is my tendency to get lazy when running extremely well.

I've found that if I entertain myself with an ADD-friendly stimulus like TV or the internet, it's difficult for me to regain my focus. If I want to do some reading (which I do enjoy, though I'll read literally a dozen or more books at once), I do it in the morning before I've checked my email or looked at the news.

I wish I could finish things, particularly creative things. I'll have a burst of creativity and start planning or writing something, but usually I won't have much desire to work on it at a later date. I want to finish it, but either keep putting off the additional work or sit down but can't seem to get the ideas flowing again.

I self-medicate with too much caffeine. I've found adderall to be extremely effective but don't have good drug connections anymore. I'll probably jump through the hoops of getting a prescription when I'm done traveling. I've heard good things about modafinil and recently ordered some. I'll post whether I find it effective or not.
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  #13  
Old 02-27-2007, 12:23 AM
ZeeJustin ZeeJustin is offline
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Default Re: Coping with ADD

[ QUOTE ]
Your theory about ADD helping poker makes no sense at all to me. Hyperfocus? Doesn't ADD result in a lack of ability to focus? I think this is one of the biggest problems I see in bad players. They sit down and start out fine, but don't focus or concentrate and start making mistakes. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

ADD is more of a lack of control of focus, rather than lack of focus itself. When something is stimulating enough to someone with ADD, they will often go into "hyper focus" mode. This is why people with ADD often fail miserably in some categories, while exceeding tremendously in others.
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  #14  
Old 02-27-2007, 12:28 AM
ZeeJustin ZeeJustin is offline
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Default Re: Coping with ADD

Good post Pete,

I have a pretty severe case of ADD, and don't take medication. I have tried 3 separate medications (Adderall, Concerta, and Stratera) but I don't take them because they all had significant side effects (Zombieness, Depleted Sex Drive, Dry Mouth / Constant Dehydration, Increased heart rate, and a couple more).

I think I thrived in sit'n'gos because I was able to develop a strategy that was good enough to crush games, even without any focus. When multi tabling, I often zoned in and out. I was always listening to music, emailing + IMing people, and using internet explorer, even when playing 8 or more tables.

Nowadays I really struggle in live cash games because I can't focus no matter how hard I try. It is simply too common that I will fold preflop, blink my eyes, and look at a huge pot on the turn, and wonder wtf the action was. It's too big of a disadvantage to not have this information to help me figure out how my opponents are playing.

For some reason I rarely have this problem in tournaments. The cameras, crowds, and huge prize pools are enough to keep me constantly stimulated. I do struggle sometimes in smaller buyins, but not nearly to the extent that I do in cash games.
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  #15  
Old 02-27-2007, 01:14 AM
Heir_Aparent Heir_Aparent is offline
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Default Re: Coping with ADD

Interesting post Justin, thanks for sharing. About 6 months ago I started taking stratera (rather than the other two you listed due to the fact it is not a stimulant) and have noticed significant benefits in many aspects of my life (poker, school, etc.)I also started lexapro (anxiety medication) a few months before stratera so it's hard to be entirely sure of the specific affects of each medicine. Regardless, i'd be interested in knowing what side affects you experienced specifically from stratera- the only thing ive experienced is a tendency to sleep a lot and be capable of sleeping whenever I feel like it.

Also, I want to echo your sentiments regarding your poker play, specifically multi-tabling. Playing becomes practically robotic after a certain number of hands, even at the highest level of SnG's. It becomes much easier to play a hand optimally especially towards the end stages of a tourny, thus enabling someone to easily 6-10 table. One thing i've come to realize is that I simply could/can NOT achieve this in cash games. I can only do 2-3 table maximum, beyond that, my play deteriorates rapidly (and really after 1-2 shorthanded tables it starts its downward turn). Obviously, this is the case for everyone as more tables takes a naturally negative toll on your play, but I found it particularily true for me as I often utilize several other ways of stimulating myself while playing online.

I guess the reason i'm posting is that I urge you to look into possible medication alternatives or dosages. It may or may not prove to be beneficial, but I believe without a doubt its worth a second trial or at the very least further research. I've defenitely noticed increased attentiveness when playing live poker and its had immense benefits to my online play. I struggled with lack of impulse control in decision making for a long time but have improved vastly in that respect of my game. I'd like to organize my thoughts and write more, but I don't really have time ATM.

anyways good thread all
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  #16  
Old 02-27-2007, 01:15 AM
divides_by_zero divides_by_zero is offline
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Default Re: Coping with ADD

I was diagnosed 2 years ago (thank god). I'm on ritalin/concerta.
"1) how do you keep from having your ADD interfere with your taking them"
-this is precisely why I switched to concerta - I wouldn't take my meds like I should because it was 'up to me' so I do the one a day and it's much easier to get into a routine. Plus, it REALLY helps me get moving in the morning, especially when I just don't want to face the world at all.

As far as most effective - the ritalin works fine for me, so I've never tried Adderall (except for once before I was officially diagnosed). However, I was underdosed with the short acting and when the time came to up the dosage I just wanted to switch to the all day for the reasons I cited. I'm still getting the dosing right for that based on a lot of other variables, but I do prefer the concept of the all day just because I'm so bad and I like feeling productive.

In theory, for days I don't have much to do I don't have to take the all day and just use my short acting, but it's a matter of personal preference.

Non-medication-wise - Oh Boy.

Actually, getting treated has actually removed some of my roadblocks. Stuff I used to think I couldn't do and would avoid I have now been able to accomplish on the meds, so I'm in this weird state of reevaluating what I'm capable of. Everyone is told they have so much potential, but this is the first time I've actually felt I could use it. I honestly don't know WHAT I'm capable of now, but it's obviously more than before.

I do try to develop some routines. Even simple stuff like the routine of medicating is key. Make it totally habit. Also, establishing a decent sleep schedule. REALLY HARD TO DO, but I think it does make a difference. Oh, and eating (especially since the stimulants are an appetite depressant). I try to start my work early and I use the program "stickies" on my laptop for constant reminders of what I need to do. I have LOTS of notes for EVERYTHING - appointments, work, shopping lists, etc. I stare at my computer all the time so it's the best way to remind myself. Little things like that make a big difference.

It's hard because I don't want to be a slave to routine - so it's a matter of picking and choosing what stuff I HAVE to have in my day to function. And then not being too hard on yourself when you fail.

But mostly - I love my drugs.
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  #17  
Old 02-27-2007, 02:16 AM
pete fabrizio pete fabrizio is offline
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Default Re: Coping with ADD

[ QUOTE ]
I think I thrived in sit'n'gos because I was able to develop a strategy that was good enough to crush games, even without any focus. When multi tabling, I often zoned in and out. I was always listening to music, emailing + IMing people, and using internet explorer, even when playing 8 or more tables.

[/ QUOTE ]

I find this interesting that your response to the difficulty was to move to a game that was more automatic. I also found it difficult to multi-table hold'em games, but my response was to shift to other games like PLO, because I found it much more stimulating due to newness and the complexity. But still if I play too much I find that I'm often watching TV, IMing, checking the news, and creating some worthless spreadsheet about sports statistics at the same time, and my "A" game goes out the window.

For meds, I've tried both regular and slow-release Ritalin (Concerta), but I found that I wasn't disciplined enough to take the Ritalin and the Concerta was too uneven (the 36mg wasn't strong enough to ever work and the 54mg was too strong at the start of the day -- leading to side effects like nervousness or fast heartbeat). I also have a lot of trouble remembering to take my meds, even one-a-days. I recently started taking Welbutrin, which is supposed to act covertly (it isn't really a stimulant at all), but I haven't been on it long enough to judge.
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  #18  
Old 02-27-2007, 02:29 AM
divides_by_zero divides_by_zero is offline
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Default Re: Coping with ADD

There's a 27 mg dosage available for Concerta now apparently, so that can be taken with an 18 for a 45mg dosage to achieve that elusive spot inbetween the 36 and the 54. I'm on 54, but I was just told this by doctor in case I do have problems with nervousness and need to come down.
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  #19  
Old 02-27-2007, 02:45 AM
ilya ilya is offline
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Default Re: Coping with ADD

hi pete,

personally, i have found that running away from any and all commitments works best.

hope this helps,
ily
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  #20  
Old 02-27-2007, 02:50 AM
pete fabrizio pete fabrizio is offline
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Default Re: Coping with ADD

[ QUOTE ]
hi pete,

personally, i have found that running away from any and all commitments works best.

hope this helps,
ilya

[/ QUOTE ]

Man, the moment I saw you posted I thought, "Oh great, my old friend Ilya. What's he going to say, that you should run away from all your commitments?"

And go on IM some time you punk bitch.
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