Pushing too hard with nothing but hopes?

[Peter Harris]

nice to see you drop in krishan, hope the book is going well.

I would lead out in hand 2, but if you have a read on an agressive LP player then a c/r is an option. I think i prefer leading out though.

[SpaceAce]

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This is not an out cleaning 3-bet. IT's purely an equity play and given your relative position to the flop raiser I don't think it hurts your implied odds too much when you hit on the turn.

Krishan

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I fully intended it as a pot builder because I probably have great equity in this pot. Cleaning up outs was not really a consideration in the decision. When I mentioned cleaning up outs, I was just pointing out that whether my opponents call or fold, I'm not going to be too sad about it.

SpaceAce

[SpaceAce]

[ QUOTE ]
nice to see you drop in krishan, hope the book is going well.

I would lead out in hand 2, but if you have a read on an agressive LP player then a c/r is an option. I think i prefer leading out though.

[/ QUOTE ]

The pot was only three-way; UTG, the SB and me. I checked knowing it was nearly 100% that the pre-flop raiser would bet. I wanted to check-raise both players while I still had two cards coming. The pot is three-handed and there's no chance I force out a hand better than my pair no matter what I do on the flop. If anyone plays back at my check-raise, I know I need to improve. If they just call, I figure I'll fire at a blank turn and take it down sometimes, having plenty of outs those times we see the river.

So, what's the advantage of leading in your opinion?

SpaceAce

[Dazarath]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you correcting my math or just saying that 3.5 is enough? In this case, there's a raise (2SB) + a call (2SB) and my big blind (1SB). Either way, I call there pretty much every time with suited connectors down to at least 56. I wonder if that's too loose.

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I was not correcting your math. I was just pointing out that if it goes raise/fold/fold/fold, and I'm in the BB with 76s, I call.

[jba]

both are good.

"nothing but hopes and a huge hand"

[TomBrooks]

H1:[ QUOTE ]
whether my opponents call or fold, I'm not going to be too sad about it. SpaceAce

[/ QUOTE ]

Why don't you care? Don't you want to have more potential payoff if you improve? I don't see how knocking anyone else out helps your winning chances substantially unless it cleans up Queen outs. With a 6 kicker thats a bit shaky anyway. Is it worth knocking players out for that?

[BostonMetro]

If you don't push your edges here on these flops, poker would cease to be any fun in my opinion. When you know you have 12+ outs multi-way on the flop, I always go nuts (even OOP) - the only time I wouldn't is if I was taking a shot underrolled.

[Heisenb3rg]

Don't like your raise in the first hand, I call the first hand. Dont want to eliminate opponents in tis situation, it's likely you will. Yes you have a huge equity edge, but theres not that much indication you're getting multiple opponents along for the ride if you 3-bet, and heads up you're equity edge is non existant.

Think of it this way, if you just call, you're very very likely to get two callers (2 SB in the pot with you're equity)

If you raise, the likely scenario is 0-1 cold callers, and button either calling or capping. (1-5 SB in the pot)
Half these scenarios are break even or worse(when no one CC's)

I think it's near definite, if you have 3 other opponets on the turn/river, you can EASILY make back
3SB*(flop pot equity edge).


Second hand is played perfectly, defintily bet the turn you have sooo many outs.. hell you could be ahead right now. You're not even that disapointed if he check-raises you. You'll likely get two bets out of him on the river then if your draw hits..

[BostonMetro]

They are still getting about 5-6:1 to call the three-bet on the flop. And even if they fold, you would be pretty happy if they are throwing away QJ or KQo.

[SpaceAce]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Are you correcting my math or just saying that 3.5 is enough? In this case, there's a raise (2SB) + a call (2SB) and my big blind (1SB). Either way, I call there pretty much every time with suited connectors down to at least 56. I wonder if that's too loose.

[/ QUOTE ]
I was not correcting your math. I was just pointing out that if it goes raise/fold/fold/fold, and I'm in the BB with 76s, I call.

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Just checking, I thought I might be missing something. Yes, I tend to play suited connectors under those circumstances, too.

SpaceAce