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  #1  
Old 07-24-2006, 06:26 AM
SpaceAce SpaceAce is offline
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Default Pushing too hard with nothing but hopes?

Hand #1:
Hero has Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] in the small blind (2/3 structure)
Cutoff limps, button limps, hero completes, big blind checks.
Flop: 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero bets, big blind calls, cutoff calls, button raises, hero three-bets...
========
Hand #2:
Hero has 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in the big blind.
UTG raises (Tightish raiser but not a total rock. If he has, say, second pair or better, I won't be folding him out), small blind calls, hero calls.
Flop: 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Sb checks, hero checks, UTG bets, SB calls, hero check-raises, UTG calls (he can't beat the Jack), SB calls.
Turn: 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
SB checks, hero bets...


Both pretty standard lines for me, including calling pre-flop getting 5:1 with my connectors in a three-way pot.

SpaceAce
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  #2  
Old 07-24-2006, 06:57 AM
PokerSparky PokerSparky is offline
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Default Re: Pushing too hard with nothing but hopes?

Hand 1: Usually I would just call the flop raise and go for overcalls. I guess you could get better Q hands (along with other hands we'd like to see fold) to fold. Meh, I suppose you're equity is so high on this flop I guess it's fine. I assume you're leading the turn HU and checking if it's three handed.

Hand 2: You could easily have the best hand here, I like it.

Edit: Hand 2 I would probably just lead out on the flop.
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  #3  
Old 07-24-2006, 07:25 AM
Dazarath Dazarath is offline
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Default Re: Pushing too hard with nothing but hopes?

[ QUOTE ]
Both pretty standard lines for me, including calling pre-flop getting 5:1 with my connectors in a three-way pot.

[/ QUOTE ]
I like both hands, and I'd probably play them the same way. I also call suited connectors getting 3.5:1 on my money.
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  #4  
Old 07-24-2006, 07:47 AM
SpaceAce SpaceAce is offline
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Default Re: Pushing too hard with nothing but hopes?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Both pretty standard lines for me, including calling pre-flop getting 5:1 with my connectors in a three-way pot.

[/ QUOTE ]
I like both hands, and I'd probably play them the same way. I also call suited connectors getting 3.5:1 on my money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you correcting my math or just saying that 3.5 is enough? In this case, there's a raise (2SB) + a call (2SB) and my big blind (1SB). Either way, I call there pretty much every time with suited connectors down to at least 56. I wonder if that's too loose.

SpaceAce
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  #5  
Old 07-24-2006, 07:52 AM
Scary_Tiger Scary_Tiger is offline
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Default Re: Pushing too hard with nothing but hopes?

Hand 1 is crazy, just call the flop raise.

Hand 2 is standard, barring some read that SB is decent, which is doubtful.
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  #6  
Old 07-24-2006, 08:10 AM
SpaceAce SpaceAce is offline
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Default Re: Pushing too hard with nothing but hopes?

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1 is crazy, just call the flop raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Crazy? That's a stretch, I think. I have a gutshot straight draw, a flush draw and an overcard with two almost certainly weak hands trapped between myself and the raiser. I can potentially clean up outs by folding out one or more of the in betweeners or, failing that, tie them to the pot in case I hit one of my million outs. That last part, of course, is purely theoretical as I don't think I have ever hit with a flush+straight draw in my entire poker playing career.

SpaceAce
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  #7  
Old 07-24-2006, 08:20 AM
Scary_Tiger Scary_Tiger is offline
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Default Re: Pushing too hard with nothing but hopes?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1 is crazy, just call the flop raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Crazy? That's a stretch, I think. I have a gutshot straight draw, a flush draw and an overcard with two almost certainly weak hands trapped between myself and the raiser. I can potentially clean up outs by folding out one or more of the in betweeners or, failing that, tie them to the pot in case I hit one of my million outs. That last part, of course, is purely theoretical as I don't think I have ever hit with a flush+straight draw when I bet/3-bet the flop with it in my entire poker playing career.

SpaceAce

[/ QUOTE ]

Standard.
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  #8  
Old 07-24-2006, 08:29 AM
SpaceAce SpaceAce is offline
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Default Re: Pushing too hard with nothing but hopes?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
when I bet/3-bet the flop with it in my entire poker playing career.

[/ QUOTE ]

Standard.

[/ QUOTE ]

You may be on to something, there.

SpaceAce
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  #9  
Old 07-24-2006, 08:31 AM
five five is offline
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Default Re: Pushing too hard with nothing but hopes?

Hand 1: I think I just call the flop raise. Why blow away the field and let button cap?

Hand 2: I like it.
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  #10  
Old 07-24-2006, 10:38 AM
krishan krishan is offline
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Default Re: Pushing too hard with nothing but hopes?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1 is crazy, just call the flop raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Crazy? That's a stretch, I think. I have a gutshot straight draw, a flush draw and an overcard with two almost certainly weak hands trapped between myself and the raiser. I can potentially clean up outs by folding out one or more of the in betweeners or, failing that, tie them to the pot in case I hit one of my million outs. That last part, of course, is purely theoretical as I don't think I have ever hit with a flush+straight draw in my entire poker playing career.

SpaceAce

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not an out cleaning 3-bet. IT's purely an equity play and given your relative position to the flop raiser I don't think it hurts your implied odds too much when you hit on the turn.

Krishan
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