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#21
10-25-2007, 01:27 PM
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Re: Stars $50 50K...turn set in multiway pot...ugly river...line check
[ QUOTE ]
Edit: not mad at you, just annoyed at the lack of content in the post contradicting me... [/ QUOTE ] Dude I explained my reasoning in my reply to you above like 10 posts ago... 
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#22
10-25-2007, 01:32 PM
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Re: Stars $50 50K...turn set in multiway pot...ugly river...line check
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I hate the PF raise. there's nothing wrong with limping JJ... or even raise to 40. You don't want to play a big pot with it unless you hit a set and your overbet pre makes it big. [/ QUOTE ] I hate this advice. If you're going to come into the pot come in raising. Limping is bad, min-raising PRF here is horrid. Your raise is fine and your play is fine. The only thing I might do different is bet 600 on the turn, but that's symantics. If you're feeling frisky, c-bet the flop after the table checked it around. Edit: just read the rest. I'll explain. Eveyone gets odds to call with any hand if you min raise. Limping? just think it's the best way to go bust when another limpers hits a big hidden hand with junk because it's an unrasied pot. I hate unraised pot's when I'm not the guy that got lucky. 140 is becasue there's 2 limpers and 5 x the bb. It's fine.
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#23
10-25-2007, 02:08 PM
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Re: Stars $50 50K...turn set in multiway pot...ugly river...line check
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The reason for raising to t160 is to cut down the field, and for value. It's a pretty standard raise I don't think it turns your hand into a bluff at all, people limp utg level 1 with a wide range of hands, it doesn't mean they have Aces / Kings. Edit: and obv I'd raise to the same amout with anything I'm raising in this spot (i.e. 3 limpers). [/ QUOTE ]I suggested a smallish raise for the exact reason you suggested a big one. I absolutely expect to get 5 or more callers with a raise in the 40-80 range and that's what I want... If you assume I win the pot when I hit a set and only hit a set, it's HUGE +ev to have a bunch of people in a raised pot. Even if I have 0 implied odds, I'm getting the right pot odds to play 7 way and fish for a set. The fact that it's multiway AND raised makes it far more likely that I'll get paid off nicely when I do hit a set.
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#24
10-25-2007, 02:22 PM
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Re: Stars $50 50K...turn set in multiway pot...ugly river...line check
Again, I agree that sync's line is prefectly reasonable and profitable.
I just think that this line is equally or more profitable and less risky.
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#25
10-25-2007, 03:37 PM
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Re: Stars $50 50K...turn set in multiway pot...ugly river...line check
[/ QUOTE ]We're still talking pre, right? Crazy wide, 35 sooted Kx sooted, Ax off, small pairs... After your raise, likely the first caller or 2 had PPs or strong aces, but after that the other donks probably just thought OMG pot odds!? and called with 35 or whatever. I don't mind the raise pre too much if you're playing it as a bluff/semi-bluff. I'd just expect that normally you're not going to get much action from junk hands and end up winning 90 chips. [/ QUOTE ] If it is "likely the first caller or 2 had PPs or strong aces, but after that the other donks probably...called with 35 or whatever" how often are these hands stacking off in the rare instances when you spike your set? I'm much more confident that I'm stacking QQ-AA when I have top set of Jacks than I am in stacking 22-TT (ldo). I just don't get why you want to take what is likely the best hand preflop (based on range you set for limpers/callers) and intentionally create a situation where you eliminate any FE, disregard the showdown value of your hand, and set mine against a range full of worse hands that will often fold when you do hit and occasionally take your stack when three Jacks is not the best hand.
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#26
10-25-2007, 04:40 PM
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Re: Stars $50 50K...turn set in multiway pot...ugly river...line check
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Again, I agree that sync's line is prefectly reasonable and profitable. I just think that this line is equally or more profitable and less risky. [/ QUOTE ] Brandi...I appreciate your input as usual...In this case I think your line of passive set mining is fine for smaller pairs but I think we need to take more advantage of JJ especially in good position with no strength being shown...I agree this makes for a bigger hand and harder decisions but it also will slow people from bluffing and repping hands and allow me to retain some control of the betting...I said it before...my 7X raise was designed to narrow the field...I am happy to play JJ vs 1 or opponents...
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#27
10-26-2007, 10:01 AM
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Re: Stars $50 50K...turn set in multiway pot...ugly river...line check
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] The reason for raising to t160 is to cut down the field, and for value. It's a pretty standard raise I don't think it turns your hand into a bluff at all, people limp utg level 1 with a wide range of hands, it doesn't mean they have Aces / Kings. Edit: and obv I'd raise to the same amout with anything I'm raising in this spot (i.e. 3 limpers). [/ QUOTE ]I suggested a smallish raise for the exact reason you suggested a big one. I absolutely expect to get 5 or more callers with a raise in the 40-80 range and that's what I want... If you assume I win the pot when I hit a set and only hit a set, it's HUGE +ev to have a bunch of people in a raised pot. Even if I have 0 implied odds, I'm getting the right pot odds to play 7 way and fish for a set. The fact that it's multiway AND raised makes it far more likely that I'll get paid off nicely when I do hit a set. [/ QUOTE ] This is how you play 45s, not JJ.
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