Start of next hand ends Floor obligation?

DeuceHigh80 · #1 10-03-2007, 11:31 PM

This happened last night at Argosy in Indiana. I wasn't at the table but was overhearing this from an adjacent table.

Floor shows up to a lot of commotion at the O8 table (might have been HOSE -- it started that way but either way this hand was apparently O8). Floor manages to silence the table and by this time has the attention of the whole room -- he announced that "none of this arguing matters because once the first card has been dealt for a hand he wasn't allowed to do anything about any previous hand". Then he tried to walk away without even hearing the argument.

In all the discussion I've read I don't recall ever hearing this kind of "policy"? Is this standard?

FWIW, the complainant wouldn't let it drop so more details emerged -- it appeared that the pot was initially split between high and low and as the dealer pushed the pot the high winner recognized he had tied with the same low and should've received 3/4ths of the pot. He was adamant that he made this observation and statement very clearly as he was receiving only 1/2 the pot. I have no clue how they got on into the next hand before the floor showed up.

Jack Bando · #2 10-03-2007, 11:39 PM

I don't know what the rule is, but I feel this decision is stupid.

"Hmm, a customer got screwed out of money due to bad dealer/angle shooter/hippies, but the hand is officialy over so **** him."

Gonso · #3 10-04-2007, 12:15 AM

You have to protect your hand. This is yet another reason why you do not release your hand until you have been properly awarded the pot. No one is going anywhere until you let those cards go in the event of a problem.

Jeffage · #4 10-04-2007, 12:15 AM

It's generally standard policy that any dispute over the ownership of a poker pot must be made before the first riffle of the shuffle of the next poker hand. Quite simply, if you think you should be awarded the pot, you should refuse to allow the game to continue before a floorman can be called to make a decision.

Jeff

RR · #5 10-04-2007, 12:21 AM

This is a standard rule and I ruled this way wihtin the last 10 minutes. That being said once in a conversation with Bob Ciaffone (author or Robert's Rules) we agreed that a touranment director had acted properly goin back to the previous hand.

Al_Capone_Junior · #6 10-04-2007, 12:23 AM

It is the dealer's obligation to wait for the floor if there is a dispute that is brought up before either the first riffle of the next hand (or the cutting of the deck if there's a shuffler). Once the riffle or cut for the next hand is dealt it is too late to bring up a dispute from the previous hand. That is standard policy everywhere I've been (and that's a lot of rooms). The dealer cannot refuse a request to call the floor, nor can they rush the sart of the next hand if a dispute has been brought up. Not sure what happened there but seems to me the floor escapes a kick in the nuts this time.

Al

Gonso · #7 10-04-2007, 12:24 AM

I remember one occasion where I awarded a player a pot, collected all cards, and was halfway into the next hand when the other player starts yelling about where the hell his money was. He had the 2nd nuts with a straight, and apparently wasn't paying attention when I paid the other player who had the nut straight - he must have been looking off into lala land or whatever.

I repeated the results, and most of the players at the table related it back to him and so on, but I had to listen to the whining about how he was screwed and so on. The floor was called and obv nothing changed, but what do expect is going to happen in cases like this?

'Protect Your Hand' is the first rule of poker for a reason.

DeuceHigh80 · #8 10-04-2007, 01:05 AM

Thanks for all the responses -- interesting info.

I guess it's so common for all action to halt while waiting on the floor that I've just never witnessed this situation before.

The floor's speech about his inability to change anything after the next hand had started was obviously directed at the whole room and he sounded a little exasperated -- maybe this is more common than I realized...

Would've been interesting to know how they got to the next hand in spite of the dispute though.

psandman · #9 10-04-2007, 01:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for all the responses -- interesting info.

I guess it's so common for all action to halt while waiting on the floor that I've just never witnessed this situation before.

The floor's speech about his inability to change anything after the next hand had started was obviously directed at the whole room and he sounded a little exasperated -- maybe this is more common than I realized...

Would've been interesting to know how they got to the next hand in spite of the dispute though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well one way this can happen is the player didn't really bring his issue up. etimes you get they players who simply don't look at the dealer and speak in a clear manner "Dealer I get 3/4s of that pot." Instead they mumble something under there breath that the dealer can't possibly understand to be a dispute and then they wait until its too late and claim the dealer ignored them . . .

RR · #10 10-04-2007, 01:52 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Instead they mumble something under there breath that the dealer can't possibly understand to be a dispute and then they wait until its too late and claim the dealer ignored them . . .

[/ QUOTE ]

This happened earlier tonight.