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#1
02-27-2007, 08:22 AM
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So What\'s The Ruling?
Situation over the weekend that I was suprised at the ruling of.
1/2 NL UTG+1 raises to $11 gets four callers. $57 pot on the flop of A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]10 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. UTG+1 bets $50 CO & Button call. Turn is the A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. UTG+1 goes all in for his last $60 or so. CO folds, button calls and has him covered. River is 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. UTG+1 tables J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Button is at the other end of the table from me and turns over a red Ace and a baby. Dealer pushes the pot to the button. Button starts stacking the chips. Cards are mucked. Guy in the two seat starts talking about how it would have been a BBJ if the other guy had Aces instead of a full house. Then the CO says he didn't have a full house he had A4. So now the UTG+1 of course says "Well I had a full house. Why is that his pot?" Dealer gets confused look on his face. Floor is called. What is the ruling? 
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#3
02-27-2007, 08:47 AM
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Re: So What\'s The Ruling?
[ QUOTE ]
"Well I had a full house. Why is that his pot?" [/ QUOTE ] Because you didn't pay attention. Though I feel that it is the players responsibility to make sure that his hand gets paid if it is the winner, in this case, the pot needs to be given to the best hand, regardless of what is now mucked. Assuming this took place in a legit cardroom, they can go to the cameras if they need to (if the table cannot confirm).
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#4
02-27-2007, 08:59 AM
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Re: So What\'s The Ruling?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] "Well I had a full house. Why is that his pot?" [/ QUOTE ] Because you didn't pay attention. Though I feel that it is the players responsibility to make sure that his hand gets paid if it is the winner, in this case, the pot needs to be given to the best hand, regardless of what is now mucked. Assuming this took place in a legit cardroom, they can go to the cameras if they need to (if the table cannot confirm). [/ QUOTE ]It didn't help that UTG+1 had no idea how much money he had to start the hand or how much he bet on the turn. Or the button went into the "Wait I didn't have a full house routine?"
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#5
02-27-2007, 10:33 AM
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Re: So What\'s The Ruling?
It's unimaginable to me that the entire table sat silently while the dealer awarded the pot to a player who didn't have the best hand.
Was this a home game? BTW, if I'm the floor, I let A4 keep the money. The pot's been pushed, the chips have been stacked, and A4's acting like he's not convinced he was beat. (All this is assuming that the next hand is already underway. If it's not, then I make absolutely certain that several people can verify the hands that were shown down, and can accurately reconstruct the betting. If there's any question as to how much was in that pot, then JJ is getting the smaller figure.) JJ gets the "protect yourself at all times" speech.
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#7
02-27-2007, 02:29 PM
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Re: So What\'s The Ruling?
One person spoke up.
Apparently Mr JJ though he was beat. So did the dealer. Was CO the only player who thought the pot was awarded incorrectly? A floor is not going to take the pot away from the guy with the chips unless there is evidence that there had been a mistake. Sure "ace-baby" wasn't A-6 or that the river wasn't a 4? Sure JJ wasn't KJ? If nobody, including CO, is interested in having the pot shoved to the "correct winner" when it is happening, then the Floor isn't going to do anything five minutes later with no hands, no board, no pot.
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#8
02-27-2007, 03:08 PM
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Re: So What\'s The Ruling?
Each player is accountable for reading the board properly, along with the other players exposed card to see if he has a winner, it is then his right to p[rotect his hand and object/explain to the dealer. When you muck your hand, you automatically loose unless the dealer has confirmed the pot is heading your way.
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#9
02-27-2007, 03:22 PM
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Re: So What\'s The Ruling?
[ QUOTE ]
It's unimaginable to me that the entire table sat silently while the dealer awarded the pot to a player who didn't have the best hand. [/ QUOTE ] Players love to yell at dealers when they make mistakes because in most hands, the players get to make all the bad mistakes. If the pot was going to the wrong player, someone surely would've spoken up. [ QUOTE ] BTW, if I'm the floor, I let A4 keep the money. ... JJ gets the "protect yourself at all times" speech. [/ QUOTE ] For the very reasons ytf mentioned, A4 should keep the pot. You also have to consider all the points Angus made regarding the quality of everyone's memory... was it really A4 or was it A6? was the river a six or a four... JJ or KJ.... Which is more likely? Ace-rag no boat gets all his money out there and the dealer ignores the other hand, not looking for yacks full or even KQ broadway... AND the entire table ignores the mistake... or the pot was awarded correctly.
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#10
02-27-2007, 03:32 PM
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Re: So What\'s The Ruling?
Um... the pot needs to be awarded to the best hand. Both players tabled their hands, so subsequent mucking is irrelevant. If the button says "I didn't have a full house. I had A4," and there is enough confirmation to believe UTG+1 had JJ with a J and a pair on the board, UTG+1 had the best hand and needs to get the pot. The floor needs to reconstruct the action as closely as possible to get the proper pot size, then have that shipped from the button to UTG+1.
The rules are "Cards Speak" and any ruling otherwise undermines the integrity of the game.
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