NL: how deep??

[smbruin22]

i realize this is vague but i'm wondering how "depth of stacks" affects your play.

what depth of stack are you fairly confident putting your entire $$$$ in on TPTK? TPgoodK??... and assume starting stacks even though the question relates to flop play. and assume you won't have lost to straight or flush yet (obviously opponents can have major draws).

what depth do you get worried about your bottom set (assume a set of 44's on Q94 board) with only draws on board?... middle set, same??

i thought i bookmarked a great article about stack size and playing strategy. i thought it said at 200BB, try to hit anything your opponent can't see... great article but now i can't find it.

thanks in advance!!

[SplawnDarts]

I think you're asking the wrong question. Your willingness to assume marginal hands are good on the flop has more to do with the ratio of pot:stack than it does with blinds:stack although the two are related concepts.

[alanbrown]

Agreed. Though the size of the pot is often a function of the BB.

Here's an example of the limit of my commitment to TPTK. If I have AK and the PF betting is 4BB each from me and villain. If I lead out for 6BB on the flop and am raised then I'm probably going to the wall if I have less than 20BB behind. So in that situation around 30BB is good enough for me to go broke with TPTK. More than that it would depend on reads.

[AKQJ10]

Eh, I'll play along. Like all poker questions, it's so dependent on the community cards, the opponents, and the rest of the situation that all of this goes with a grain of salt. The following answers apply to NL25.

At about 75 BBL effective I start to think I'm playing wrong to stack off with TPTK on a dry board.

I don't think the same thing about bottom set until about 300 BBL effective. Since that's rare in a 100 BBL limited game, I don't recall any time in 25K online hands that I've thought I would have been right to fold a set on an uncoordinated board. My only concern is how to get the stacks in.

Ditto middle set. 305 BBL just to give a little different answer, but preflop action should usually give you a clue whether you're against top set.

You didn't ask about two pair, but I'm usually OK with getting 100 BBL stacks in with top two. Let's say 80 BBL bottom two, 85 BBL top-and-bottom, 125 BBL top two.

Just some silly estimates but I'm interested in the ensuing discussion, vague though it is.

[SplawnDarts]

AKQJ10's numbers are in the ballpark of mine.

In practice, though, I trust my read. I'm willing to call a push with TPTK in a 1000BB and fold bottom set in 100BB games if the read says that's the correct play.

[Kerth]

42

[GiantBuddha]

[ QUOTE ]
42

[/ QUOTE ]

You're reading the wrong book. It's 23.

[Andruin]

If I play short stack I am more than happy to commit all chips when holding TPTK but with more than 30BB I simply wait for a better profitable situation.
I make the most money out of people overvaluing TP

[AKQJ10]

[ QUOTE ]
with more than 30BB I simply wait for a better profitable situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's quite weak-tight. If I catch onto this tendency, I'm going to flop a lot of "sets" when you flop TPTK. (As long as the cards go into the muck, as far as you know they were a set, right?)

Now, you might say that poor players are going to think less about how to exploit this hole in your game and tell you more reliably when you're beat. I agree.

But weak players are also going to pay off immense amounts with TP-bad kicker. I have wonderful memories of winning several stacks in the Foxwoods or Borgata $1-2 just by value betting my AK TPTK down to the river. In online NL$25, if I bet my TPTK and get called twice, I have to at least consider I'm no good.

[smbruin22]

i tend to agree... 30BB seems pretty low as your "comfort cap" on TPTK. i'm thinking 50BB minimum at start of hand. splawn was right that it's actually chips at the time the decision is made, but to keep it simple, i go with starting chips (4-5x raise, 6X on flop, so you'll have used up 10BB when all-in raise comes back to you). maybe 40-45BB is my generic #.

i realize it's simplification but writers deal with that all the time in giving advice. and certainly you can deviate from the advice for all kinds of reasons, just know why you're doing it.