WSOP $1500 ITM -Top 2 in huge 3-way pot

[MUD]

220 left in WSOP $1500. Average stack is 30000. We're ITM and the money doesn't really start jumping until top 50. Big stack in this hand plays really passive. Limps some (limped JT from middle position in one spot), minraises a little and has shown down stuff like A8o, and raises to 4x BB with big hands. He actually said something to the effect of "if I raise big I have a big hand" and has shown AA when raising 4x BB. The table is calling him "Terminator" and somebody mentions him winning 6 straight races when I get to the table.

Mid stack is playing more straight forward. Although he has called one of these minraises from the BB before and just bet out and taken the pot. I have yet to see him cold call a raise in position but all my time with him was around the money bubble. Overall he has been solid TAG but hasn't shown anything down yet.

I had been really aggressive around the money bubble because the big stack was so passive. I had stolen my way from 30000 to 50000 while losing 2 showdowns to short stacks. I had led out from the SB for half pot on the money bubble in a limped pot on a steal.

Big stack 90000
Button 38000
Hero 45000

We're the 3 biggest stacks at the table.

800/1600 ante 200

The Big stack minraises to 3200, button calls, SB folds and I have Q9o in BB. I call.

Flop Q9s8s

I lead out 7500, big stack calls almost immediately, and button almost immediately goes all-in for 35000. Button seems strong, and big stack is kinda of shaking his head looking at his chips(he doesn't see me watching him and I am 99% sure he's not tricking me, he plays extremely non-tricky).

Pot is now 34000 and its 27000 to me, and I have 34000.

All-in or fold?

Do you guy like preflop? how about the lead out?

[WarDekar]

Ummm... call immediately? I really don't see the huge issue with this, dude's shoving range is like... pretty wide here and sure maybe occassionally you're behind to a set, but I'd say that's a very, very small portion of the time and I just don't see how you can ever even consider folding this?

EDIT: I mean, maybe you don't want to do it IMMEDIATELY, deliberate for a bit or something if you really want to try and get OR in for the ride (you probably do because I think the most likely holding for button is a monster draw of some kind and OR probably has a better Q but obviously not 2 pair so he's drawing to 3 outs)

[WarDekar]

I just realized TJ gives a straight so maybe not? I mean OR certainly doesn't have TJ since you don't think he can be putting on a show, and it seems out of character for button to do this given your read.

I just don't really see the issue with this hand, honestly... You call and win big pot------>>>>big chip stack----->>>>final table WSOP event----->>>>robusto

[adanthar]

You can't really ever fold this.

[MUD]

By solid TAG I meant 50 yo nit. These guys would shove the nuts here for sure. It amazes me how small the old peoples' ranges are in these events. I mean think about what these old guys are doing with AsJs?

As amazing as it sounds I think they call closing out the action with the combo draws. But I've only played 2 events so far this year, so you guys tell me what a random nit's range is here?

I understand it would be a ridiculous fold

[curtains]

must call. Also I'd bet closer to the full pot on the flop.

[WarDekar]

Well if it's a ridiculous fold, what's the issue? Clearly you have to move in here.

Sorry if you were beat, but that's the way things go.

Oh and I guess I agree with you on old nits shoving the nuts here, because every tournament I play I love hearing people say "ohhhh he just shoved a set" on some flop where like... no one would ever shove over a bet with a set because it completely kills the value of the hand.

Every time I think to myself "why the FU CK would anyone ever shove a set there?!" and then every time I get caught by some moron doing something like that I'm like "ohhhh sh it, how'd I get leveled by some donk because I didn't think it was possible anyone was that retarded"

[registrar]

You have to call. You can also shove PF. You can also pot the flop to price yourself in or, depending on your image, bet less to widen the shoving range. Or CR. Lots of ways to play it but the result must be that you're down to the felt by the turn.

[MUD]

Ya I guess you guys are right, this probably belongs in BBV.

But I just had this sense it was a set, JT, or maybe AQ. And if you add AQ to the range I'm getting odds to call.


Results:

I go all-in and big stacks calls. 88 for button, KsQs, for big stack and I'm drawing to 3 outs for the main pot.

[WarDekar]

ZOMG leveled

I mean not the worst shove with a set, but dude got paid off with like the 2 hands that will possibly call him that he's ahead of which is pretty sick.