something simple you can all use in live play

[mike l.]

20-40 i have AA utg. i raise. i was caught bluffing less than a half hour earlier. a old guy who plays pretty loose bad confused calls, bb calls. flop is QJ9 check-bet-raise-fold-i 3 bet-guy 4 bets-i call a little worried about KT or two pair.

the turn is an A. i bet, he says "you bet?! ok... ill just call."

the river is a 5. i check intending to raise.

[private joker]

Aren't old guys in live games usually passive enough to check behind on this river? That comment "I'll just call" usually means weakness. After this kind of action, I think he rarely bets the river. But maybe your bluffer image had something to do with his walking into a river sexy.

[bakku]

why not just c/r the turn?

[drbk2]

[ QUOTE ]
why not just c/r the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm guessing so that he only loses 2 bets instead of 3 if the guy really does have KT?

[James.]

do you feel obligated to call a 3bet given your "bluffy" image? do you think he will 3bet two pair or a lower set or some worse hand vs. you on the end given your line b/c he thinks you're FOS?

[Lestat]

<font color="blue"> the river is a 5. i check intending to raise. </font>

You should also intend on losing to better hand often enough to where betting is better.

[Lestat]

<font color="blue"> Aren't old guys in live games usually passive enough to check behind on this river? </font>

Exactly.. They're also passive enough to say on the turn, "You bet? Ok, I'll just call", with QJs (afraid of aces-up), or even middle set (afraid of a bigger set).

Whether it worked or not this time around, check/raising the river here is generally poor against this type of player on this board. You're too likely to lose a bet (when he checks behind), or be beaten when he bets.

[SA125]

[ QUOTE ]
Exactly.. They're also passive enough to say on the turn, "You bet? Ok, I'll just call", with QJs (afraid of aces-up), or even middle set (afraid of a bigger set).

Whether it worked or not this time around, check/raising the river here is generally poor against this type of player on this board. You're too likely to lose a bet (when he checks behind), or be beaten when he bets.

[/ QUOTE ]

My read on the post is that mike believes when he ch's the guy's going to say "You ch. Ok I'll bet." with a worse hand. I think it's a good play if that's the read.

The problem is that I hate raising when I'm not folding to a re-raise. Trying to win 2 bets and paying off 3 is way -EV. Which would be tough to avoid here. That would be my main reason to go bet/call.

[Lestat]

For cryin out loud, never mind! Guess I'm a brain-dead idiot tonight. While I knew an ace turned, and also knew mike had AA, I somehow failed to realize this gave mike a set, which beat two pair?!?!?!?!? OMFG... Sorry about that.

Of course, I'm much less worried about mike being beat. And "confused" players(even passive ones), might bet enough worse hands to make it worth going for a check/raise.

Geesh. Really sorry guys (mike). Shouldn't post when I'm not paying attention to what I'm doing.

[mike l.]

"That comment "I'll just call" usually means weakness."

i strongly disagree. that exact comment is what earned him the c/r. "ill just call" after all that flop action means he still loves his hand. c/r time.

if someone said "ill just call" after taking a passive line so far it'd be different. in that case they would be trying to intimidate their opponent out of betting the river.


as for old guys and their passivity. baby boomers are old now and theyre not conservative in their thinking a lot of the time. theyre if anything over confident and overvalue their hands. they also think they are smarter than "kids". for the most part they are vastly wrong. bottom line: no longer assume old means weak or tight or passive, that stereotype has been old for at least 5 years now, maybe longer.