Hmmm I made the pot big now what?

[PokerJans]

8-16

I have been raising a fair amount, flopping nothing, and consistently losing to very marginal hands at showdown. Everyone at the table thinks I am crazy because I have been aggressive and obviously losing.

5 limpers to myself in the SB with 99 and I raise. The BB calls along with everyone else.

Q85 with two spades. I bet and the BB raises, looks at me and says something like "OK I will protect your hand" , everyone folds and I call

Turn is an offsuit 6 so now I have more outs. I check and call

River is an offsuit Q, I check and call

BB is an Italian looking fellow waiting for a seat in a bigger game. Very friendly a fairly aggressive preflop but probably has any two cards from the BB. Unfortunately I don't really remember much about him except that he seems generally bad and initially I thought he was LAGish but once we moved to the main game he just seemed normal bad - if that makes any sense.

[StrictlyStrategy]

Probably should edit river results.

It's fine. He'll bet an 8 after the Q came so you don't really do much different.

[KenProspero]

Putting myself in Villian's shoes.

I'd probably raise the flop with an 8, especially if I had at least one spade.

You check the turn, I bet.

After the river you check -- it becomes a little harder, after you check, because I don't see what hands you're likely to call that don't beat me. Also, you may be slowplaying a Q, so maybe middle pair raises.

What I'm saying is that there's nothing inconsistent with middle pair here. However, I wouldn't be surprised if he turned a queen.

No choice but to call here.

[Harv72b]

I don't like the preflop raise, especially given your table image. Complete & play for set value. I'm also not sold on the flop bet into that large a field, although as played it worked out as well as it could have for you.

The rest of the hand is alright. I don't hold out much hope of winning when he bets the river, but it's possible that you just outdrew 85, or that he thinks your calling range includes ace high.

[PokerJans]

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I don't like the preflop raise, especially given your table image.

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I am definitely on the fence about my preflop play. Anyone else want to chime in here?

[StrictlyStrategy]

I think it's better now than usual.


You're getting a little better than even money(It's actually probably around dead even) to flop a set.

I don't think it matters either way. Like at all.

[Niediam]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't like the preflop raise, especially given your table image.

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I am definitely on the fence about my preflop play. Anyone else want to chime in here?

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I think not raising here is a leak. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

To be fair 99 is the lowest I regularly go. But if you were to have raised 22 here I wouldn't have an issue with it (even though I like the play much more on the button).

[Harv72b]

[ QUOTE ]
I think not raising here is a leak. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

To be fair 99 is the lowest I regularly go. But if you were to have raised 22 here I wouldn't have an issue with it (even though I like the play much more on the button).

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Given that we are going to end up folding on the flop a large percentage of the time and that our opponents are likely to play their hands the same way after the flop regardless of pot size, I'm really confused as to why a preflop raise is good. While I understand that we likely have a preflop equity advantage against that many opponents, our position sucks, our image apparently sucks, and I really don't think we gain anything out of it long-term except higher variance.

Then again, I would raise TT here, and there isn't much of a difference between the two in what will likely be a 7-handed pot. So I'm willing to admit that I might be off on this.

[Niediam]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think not raising here is a leak. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

To be fair 99 is the lowest I regularly go. But if you were to have raised 22 here I wouldn't have an issue with it (even though I like the play much more on the button).

[/ QUOTE ]

Given that we are going to end up folding on the flop a large percentage of the time and that our opponents are likely to play their hands the same way after the flop regardless of pot size, I'm really confused as to why a preflop raise is good. While I understand that we likely have a preflop equity advantage against that many opponents, our position sucks, our image apparently sucks, and I really don't think we gain anything out of it long-term except higher variance.

Then again, I would raise TT here, and there isn't much of a difference between the two in what will likely be a 7-handed pot. So I'm willing to admit that I might be off on this.

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I'm not going to make a huge deal about this either as like I said it is the smallest pair I usually raise.

Intrestingly enough I was reading WLLH at the bookstore today and almost puked when Jones suggested not raising QQ/JJ in the BB in a multiway pot.

Anyhow, if villians are going to play the same way regardless if we raise or not doesn't make that raising definately correct? I played around with 'Stove for a bit and the equity edge is definately there. I don't see this being any different than raising QJs on the button after a bunch of limpers or raising a flush draw on the flop for value. I think the main reason not to raise here would be to keep the pot smaller so there is a greater chance your opponents don't draw to overs when you flop an overpair or only one overcard.

I definately agree that it will increase your varience quite a bit.

[TomBrooks]

I don't care for a PFR with Nines in the worst position after 5 limpers and a BB that is going to call with almost anything (getting 13:1.)

Result?