How to tell girlfriend about amount of money spent playing poker

[Cactus Jack]

Frankly, there's very little you can do, my friend. If she doesn't understand the basic math of poker, then all you say will go in one ear and out the other. Some people don't get it, like congressmen or my mother. They will always equate gambling with luck.

My ex was bipolar, and when she sat in front of a slot machine, she was playing until it was gone. Yet, she hated my playing poker and couldn't believe I wasn't just getting lucky. She never got comfortable, and we split, although more the bipolar part than the poker part.

My only advice is never surrender your penis. If she owns it, she'll own everything else. It sounds as if you might already be in negotitiations for a Neville Chamberlain peace accord. Man up, or lose it. No other way to put it.

CJ

[cgrohman]

Also, don't marry her. Marriage is bad.

[The Dude]

You're an idiot for lying to her for so long. The best thing to do, as others have already said, is to be open about it. Starting the conversation with "Honey, I've been misleading you for years about how much I gamble with, but you should know before we move in" is problematic, but it would be completely unnecessary if you hadn't lied for so long anyway. And if you wait until the stakes are higher (you've moved in together, you're engaged, etc) it's only a recipe for a bigger disaster.

Good luck, dummy.

[surfdoc]

I have a pretty good deal of experience in this department and it sounds like a similar situation to where I was a few years ago. I think some people underestimate how hard it is to convince people that what we do isn't the same type of gambling as the gambling that was done by their uncle Charlie who lost the family retirement at some sleezy casino in Reno one week. I think those saying that is a measure of you girl's intelligence are dead wrong. That has nothing to do with it. As far as what you want to tell her, it really does depend on what your goals are in life and with her.

If you are going to keep a full time job and only play poker on the side as a hobby for extra income and entertainment then I don't really think it matters if you tell her about the daily swings as long as you are a winning player. If you have a seperate roll and this money has nothing to do with her or the monthly expenses then it will be fine. For a while I just cut my win/loss by one zero and reported that number and it worked just fine. In fact, I still don't see any need to report the huge losses. It accomplishes very little. In fact, I think it is better to train them not to even ask when you come home from a session. It actually works out well. Sometimes I don't even know myself which is awesome and akin to playing online with a tilt blocker. I just think it is unhealthy and unwise to update the sig other on a a daily basis. They aren't trained the way we are to handle the emotional swings associated with daily variance. I still only update my wife on a monthly basis. This is basically inevitable since I have to have some justification for ramping down my hours at the regular job and buying all kinds of stuff with winnings will really be the only possible way that I can keep playing a lot.

However, there are many caveats. How you spend your time after a 9-5 day will become a big issue. If you head to the casino 4 nights a week this is going to start wearing her down, especially if there are kids. Therefore, if you plan to play a lot of poker, or use it as a primary source of income, you will need to tell her why you are going there so often and share your results. For a while I was only playing on my own time and it gets pretty easy for them to lock you down if you are just playing for fun. This is even more true after kids arrive. If you can show that the income has a positive impact on your life then the pain or annoyance of you being gone will start to melt away and if you are really lucky you may get encouraged to go play. This is seemingly pretty rare even with my friends who are full time pros.

My advice is to take this slow. You are mostly hearing advice from the younger crowd who are pushing the "come clean" line. Now, don't get me wrong. I am not advocating lying to her directly. I just think that drawing a line in the sand before she is ready is a good way to wreck a relationship. In general, most of us have a good deal of issues. The women are certainly no different. Just give it some time to develop and understand that it will come with patience. Good luck.

[BriPlay]

just one thing to add to the other posts.
some women can be very funny about financial issues, and she may not want to bring it up as you are in a sensitive (pre-proposal) stage.
If you haven't already, it might help to (prior to taking with her) set up a specific separate bank account for your poker wins/losses. I did this and it helped make it clear to my wife that i have no intentions of using family funds, and her anxiety wilted.
oh one other thing that can help; i bought my wife diamond eaarrings with about 2k from my winnings... a gift she would be upset by if it was our family money...it really helped her see that im not just wasting my time!

good luck!!

Brian

[nineinchal]

I keep my poker money separately. I keep an envelope of the hundos I won stashed in my desk.

NEVER USE THESE BENJAMINS FOR ANY PURPOSE OTHER THAN MID LIMIT PLAY. DO NOT USE THIS MONEY FOR NO LIMIT. DO NOT PASS GO. GO DIRECTLY TO ENVELOPE WITH THIS CASH UPON YOUR RETURN FROM CASINO AND RETURN THE PROCEEDS, COMPLETELY IN TACT, DIRECTLY TO THE ENVELOPE. WHEN YOU GO OUT TO THE CASINO THE NEXT TIME, TAKE YOUR REQUIRED ALLOTMENT FROM ENVELOPE, AND REPEAT THIS PROCESS OVER AND OVER, AD INFINITUM. SHOW ENVELOPE TO GIRLFRIEND UPON REQUEST OR NAGGING. MOST IMPORTANTLY, DO NOT FORGET TO USE EXCESS FUNDS ON VALENTINES DAY, BY CELEBRATING WITH JEWELRY, A GIFT OF A VACATION, AND REALLY GREAT DINNER DATE AND SHOW.

Remember, this method works well only if you are in fact, a winning player as you have stated.

[jkamowitz]

[ QUOTE ]
I keep my poker money separately. I keep an envelope of the hundos I won stashed in my desk.

NEVER USE THESE BENJAMINS FOR ANY PURPOSE OTHER THAN MID LIMIT PLAY. DO NOT USE THIS MONEY FOR NO LIMIT. DO NOT PASS GO. GO DIRECTLY TO ENVELOPE WITH THIS CASH UPON YOUR RETURN FROM CASINO AND RETURN THE PROCEEDS, COMPLETELY IN TACT, DIRECTLY TO THE ENVELOPE. WHEN YOU GO OUT TO THE CASINO THE NEXT TIME, TAKE YOUR REQUIRED ALLOTMENT FROM ENVELOPE, AND REPEAT THIS PROCESS OVER AND OVER, AD INFINITUM. SHOW ENVELOPE TO GIRLFRIEND UPON REQUEST OR NAGGING. MOST IMPORTANTLY, DO NOT FORGET TO USE EXCESS FUNDS ON VALENTINES DAY, BY CELEBRATING WITH JEWELRY, A GIFT OF A VACATION, AND REALLY GREAT DINNER DATE AND SHOW.

Remember, this method works well only if you are in fact, a winning player as you have stated.

[/ QUOTE ]

So Al, you're advocating using the money earned for your girl and girl alone? This doesn't make too much sense.

Pope, I asked my girl about your situation and what as a girl she likes to hear;

She likes to hear that I'm saving my money, that I'm investing it. She likes to see me quit when I'm down and listen to her during the tough times. She likes it when I treat her well after disapearing for a few days.

She said she's glad that I talk to her because she gets to share in the good days and she's supportive during the bad days.

Again, best of luck.

[nineinchal]

No JK, I use the money for all my poker related expenses, such as food, gas, and lodging (actually, I used my first envelope of money for the down payment on my boardwalk condo).

I advocated using the money for the OP's girl so he can blow off the heat he gets from her. Anyway, my point is like that discussion that we had a few months ago about never going broke and the advantages of playing limit vs no-limit. I keep a bankroll exclusively devoted to poker. I actually over expended my bankroll to purchase my condo, so I had to drop down to 10/20 to get back up to the required bankroll for 20/40 again. I plan to be returning to 20/40 sometime over the winter. Anyway, at whatever level, the excess cash generated by limit poker really adds up.

For further reading, I recommend "Gambling Theory and Other Topics" by Mason Malmuth. This work really helped me understand variance (winning and losing streaks) and bankroll requirements to stay afloat in the world of mid limit stakes.

[jfk]

[ QUOTE ]
if she asks how I did, I always say something about losing $100 or $200 or winning $100 or $200.

[/ QUOTE ]

My advice is never to lie to someone whom you intend to marry and to continue this policy into marriage.

[ QUOTE ]
She doesn't approve of 'gambling'

[/ QUOTE ]

This is more of a strength than a weakness. We who do this seriously shouldn't feel that the rest of the world must immediately grasp notions of +EV and figure out that we do this for profit. Those who hold the view that gambling = losing are generally right well more than 90% of the time.

[ QUOTE ]
I would like to come clean with how much I can win/lose in a given night. I have all my sessions tracked in Excel for the past 3 years, and have shown a profit every year. I do have some large losses of like $4000+ and wins of the same magnitude that might scare her.

[/ QUOTE ]

The Excel list would be Exhibit A and a great way to break the ice. It may even spark in her some degree of interest in what you do. You may offer to let her read one of the thirty books you have on your shelf. Those books are Exhibit B in building your case as to why your interest in poker is different than a tourist's interest in craps.

[ QUOTE ]
So I know I need to be honest with her, because her finding out from one of my friends who know my activity would be 10x worse (would probably occur on a night of drinking, which would make the fight even worse).

[/ QUOTE ]

...hence the simple elegance of the "never lie" policy.

[ QUOTE ]
So whats the best way to go about this. I don't want to do it until after xmas and us getting used to living together. But that means I will need to hide my money even better then I do now.

[/ QUOTE ]

See the Excel and books commentary and do not hide your money. Her seeing that you have a lot of unexplained cash about will help your case.

[ QUOTE ]
Is coming straight out and explaining it to her that it is a great outlet for my competitive nature, I enjoy it as a hobby, and I make a nice side income from it as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a perfect start.


[ QUOTE ]
Buying her stuff with poker winnings wouldn't convince her of it, since she isn't the material/gold digging type.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which would make her a natural type to be very suspicious and wary of gambling and gamblers. Again, this is more likely to reflect strength of character and common sense than it is to be a sign of close mindedness.

[ QUOTE ]
So any advice/experiences would be welcomed while I prep myself for the 'talk'. Another wrinkle in it is that I hate working 9 to 5, and she loves her line of work, so I could see eventually me being a stay at home dad who plays poker 20-30 hours a week to make an income as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know a guy who has done this. It is certainly a viable path as poker income can be a great part time job. Bear in mind however that a large portion of the outside world still views poker player as either a) seedy and/or borderline criminal or b) a made up job like "Chief Ice Cream Taster". Also consider that if you're a parent staying home to take care of your kids, that in itself will be a very demanding full time job. Yes, its viable to fit some poker into the nooks and crannies of a day but adding 20-30 hours on top of what already figures to be a pretty full day is more of a challenge than it may seem at first. There are a whole host of other issues to explore with this and it could be an essay in itself, so suffice it say that it is viable but with drawbacks.

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know if it would be a deal breaker if she puts her foot down and says I can't play that much, but it just might be...I enjoy it that much.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a highly personal and private decision and goes to the heart of who you are as a person. There are those who view their marriage and/or family as the most important thing in their life and make sacrifices to maintain domestic tranquility.

There are also those who view marriage/family as one segment of their lives and are willing to weigh the pros and cons of all their decisions in a relative way. If a better job comes up but its necessitates a move which is opposed by a spouse, a career driven person will put a priority on career. If someone professionally successful decides they've outgrown their current marriage and happens to stumble upon a very attractive, younger alternative to their current spouse they may elect to serve their own needs and happiness with an upgrade. Without assigning moral judgments to the above, people make these choices every day and it goes to who they are as a person. No one can help you make those choices.

Schoonmaker has written a lot about poker and its high degree of suitableness as a hobby or a part time job. It might be worth it to search out some of his older writings. Also, take a good look around the card room the next time you're there. Take a good look at the 40+ year old regular, winning players without wedding rings and judge for yourself whether you think it would be a good call to set aside a serious relationship for the opportunity to be in their shoes twenty years from now. While doing that also picture your current circle of friends and envision their lives twenty years out. Will you be content as a single man spending his waking hours predating on degenerates while everyone you've known has gone on to raise families, buy homes and mature while you've given over your life to poker? Perhaps most importantly, consider whether finding a potential wife who has a natural suspicion and aversion to gambling is a good sign of character or a flaw?

[Nate.]

jfk--

Just when I thought this thread couldn't get any better...

Nice post, dude.

--Nate