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  #1  
Old 07-16-2007, 04:10 PM
chillrob chillrob is offline
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Default AA in 10/20 at Taj - lay it down or call and cry?

OK, my first post looking for advice here, and I don't want it to come off like a bad beat story, I really just want to know how often I should be paying off when almost certain I am beat.

10/20 limit at the Taj Majal in Atlantic City. My first time playing in this game, which is looser and not as aggressive as the 10/20 games I have played at the Borgata. Villian is a man in his 60s who seems not to play very well and is pretty loose.

Pick up AA in early-mid position. 3 or 4 to the flop including one or two cold callers and one either limp caller or caller in the blind, can't remember which (definately one player before me and 1 or 2 after).

Flop is 7JJ (no flush draw) - early or blind position, bets, I raise, the later 1 or 2 players fold. Turn is a 2 I believe, or at least some card smaller than a 7. Checked to me and I bet, bet called by early position player.

River is a 7, and early position bets out into me. Is this even worth a call here?

Rob
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Old 07-16-2007, 04:17 PM
threeonefour threeonefour is offline
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Default Re: AA in 10/20 at Taj - lay it down or call and cry?

i think so. a 'donk' bet shows much less aggression/strength in general than a raise. i am not happy about it, but i definitely call. you will see weird stuff here a lot. a player might bet out with 88 thinking that any A will call. in fact, i have seen many players donk out here with an A themselves, in an effort to get the other guy to fold his A presumably.
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Old 07-16-2007, 04:22 PM
rafiki rafiki is offline
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Default Re: AA in 10/20 at Taj - lay it down or call and cry?

I'd recommend maybe cleaning up the action a little if you remember it. With that it'll be easier to get exact pot size and ranges. At that point really it's just how often you're good, and a little bit of a description of the player. Was he tricky at all ? Do you think you could be ahead even 1 time in 10 ? My first instinct here is that no, you can't even be good that often. But if you feel that you can see 9Ts here 1 in X, then call... the pot is fairly big.
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Old 07-16-2007, 04:30 PM
ACPlayer ACPlayer is offline
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Default Re: AA in 10/20 at Taj - lay it down or call and cry?

Just call.

The river golden rule is: if u reach the river and are now not sure whether to call or fold. Just call (at least in low-mid limit loose games). The pot is almost always laying you the needed odds.
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  #5  
Old 07-16-2007, 04:34 PM
chillrob chillrob is offline
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Default Re: AA in 10/20 at Taj - lay it down or call and cry?

I wish I did remember the action more precisely. I think the villian was more likely an early limper, but he could have been the BB. Anyway, the final pot must have held somewhere between $165 and $195 when I made my $20 crying call.

The player did not seem particularly tricky to me, unlikely that he was trying to bluff with Ace high or a busted straight draw. It is possible that he could have had something like the 88 suggested, but I figured much more likely that he had an oddly played Jack (either a weird slowplay or was a nit worried about his kicker) or a horribly played 7.

Rob
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Old 07-16-2007, 04:42 PM
threeonefour threeonefour is offline
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Default Re: AA in 10/20 at Taj - lay it down or call and cry?

[ QUOTE ]
I'd recommend maybe cleaning up the action a little if you remember it. With that it'll be easier to get exact pot size and ranges. At that point really it's just how often you're good, and a little bit of a description of the player. Was he tricky at all ? Do you think you could be ahead even 1 time in 10 ? My first instinct here is that no, you can't even be good that often. But if you feel that you can see 9Ts here 1 in X, then call... the pot is fairly big.

[/ QUOTE ] T9s? i am thinking Ax 88 99 TT are all much more likely. given the description at least.

i see this kind of stuff on double paired boards a fair amount. even from ABCish, loose passive, or bad players who aren't prone to bluffing much.

the pot appears to be in the 9 or 10 BB range given the river bet, i definitely think you are good often enough. worst case, you show cracked aces, which i think can do a lot for an image. everyone remembers aces getting cracked, and many assume you are necessarily tilty if your aces get cracked. maybe this is why so many otherwise good players make a big deal about losing with aces, to reinforce this image?
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  #7  
Old 07-16-2007, 05:23 PM
sirlurkalot sirlurkalot is offline
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Default Re: AA in 10/20 at Taj - lay it down or call and cry?

[ QUOTE ]

Villian is a man in his 60s who seems not to play very well and is pretty loose.


[/ QUOTE ]
I see Ax in this spot regularly at the Borg 10/20. If the Taj game is even looser, it seems likely. I've even seen a naked ace over-call hoping for a three-way chop [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img].
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  #8  
Old 07-16-2007, 05:41 PM
chillrob chillrob is offline
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Default Re: AA in 10/20 at Taj - lay it down or call and cry?

Thanks for all the replies - it sounds that, given the size of the pot, I did the right thing with the crying call.

It just broke my heart to throw away another $20 when I was almost certain he had a 7. Of course he showed A7o - had to catch a fluke one card straight or flush or else two 7s to beat me. He put down his hand, I laid my aces face up, and he pointed to his 7 like he needed to make sure I knew my aces weren't good. I didn't tilt after that, but continued to have bad luck including having a set of 10s beat by an inside straight on the river in a large pot.
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  #9  
Old 07-16-2007, 05:56 PM
GreywolfNYC GreywolfNYC is offline
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Default Re: AA in 10/20 at Taj - lay it down or call and cry?

[ QUOTE ]
He put down his hand, I laid my aces face up, and he pointed to his 7 like he needed to make sure I knew my aces weren't good. I didn't tilt after that, but continued to have bad luck including having a set of 10s beat by an inside straight on the river in a large pot.

[/ QUOTE ]
Completely standard for the Taj 10-20 game. Those people are among the worst players in Christendom but they will put some really sick beats on you from time to time.
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  #10  
Old 07-16-2007, 11:19 PM
DrewOnTilt DrewOnTilt is offline
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Default Re: AA in 10/20 at Taj - lay it down or call and cry?

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for all the replies - it sounds that, given the size of the pot, I did the right thing with the crying call.

It just broke my heart to throw away another $20 when I was almost certain he had a 7. Of course he showed A7o - had to catch a fluke one card straight or flush or else two 7s to beat me. He put down his hand, I laid my aces face up, and he pointed to his 7 like he needed to make sure I knew my aces weren't good. I didn't tilt after that, but continued to have bad luck including having a set of 10s beat by an inside straight on the river in a large pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your call was nowhere even close to a crying call. Against your average Atlantic City middle limit moron I will call this somewhere in the range of always. Expect to be good here a good percentage of the time, too.
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