Novice Stud Player - Which hands are limping (and raising) hands?

[DawnToDusk]

I am a novice stud player and have been overwhelmed by the vast amounts of information provided by SCSFAP. I am being very patient with it and can already see improvements in my game. One of my leaks that I would like to address is 3rd street limping hands. I know for a fact that some of the hands I am limping with ought to be either chucked in the muck or in fact be raising with. If you can give me your two cents about some of the hands below I would greatly appreciate it. Simply saying fold, limp, or raise won't help me much though.

Situation: Low stakes stud table. 3-4 limpers in the pot. Limpers up card isn't higher than a ten.

A K x - With the A and K down is it worth limping? It is likely that the A and K aren't going to win a big multiway pot if there is plenty of money going into the pot, but is it worth limping on 3rd and seeing how the hand develops in hopes that a lot of the players aren't to excited about their hand and are checking it down?

A Q/J x - Same analysis as above but this time with the Q/J instead of the K. Is it just to weak of a hand to limp on 3rd with and pair your Q and J when someone else may pair an A or K?

x K A - This time the ace is showing and we have a similar analysis as the first example. Does it help if our ace is showing and we just limp in the pot? You may pair your ace on 4th, 5th, or 6th street but are we going to get lots of fold equity here from anything above one pair?

x A K - Same analysis as above and in the first example.

A K Q/J/T - How should we treat this hand? If we have the A K and Q we have the three highest cards and they are all higher than the up card shown by the limper. If we pair one of them, bet and get raised when the raiser has a likely two pair, we can likely call in hopes of making two pair with our A K and Q and have confidence in that we have the highest two pair.

I guess some of the questions that I am asking has to do with decisions you would make on later streets as well but if we can answer them and come to a conclusion like "If you limp on 3rd with this hand then you are likely to face difficult decisions on later streets where you are likely to be behind," then I can say "Oh. Don't want to play that as its not profitable on later streets in a multiway pot," and can just muck it.

I was going to post more about playing connected cards but think I am going to wait for another post. I don't want to overwhelm myself once again with all kinds of information.

Thanks a bunch you guys. Appreciate it a lot. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[jordiepop]

read the stud section in super system one and 7csfap

[Andy B]

I will sometimes limp in with cheese like this, but you would probably be better off if you never played in the situation described.

High bags look better to hold'em player than they really are. In hold'em, AK is an excellent starting hand. Basically, you raise and hope you flop a pair. If you do, that's frequently enough to win, and even if you miss, you might buy the pot if you don't have too many opponents.

In stud, there are a couple of problems with AK and such hands. First of all, the cards come one at a time, so you will have to pay for each one individually to see if you pair up (or pick up a gut-shot). The other problem is that one pair and two pair don't win as often in stud as they do in hold'em, especially in multi-way pots.

[DawnToDusk]

What about the bring in and one limper? Is it worth limping here or ought we be raising?

I don't know if it is the game cuse its low limit no-foldem (At least some games seem like that. Others seem pretty tight actually), but I have been very bad at stealing the blind. Obviously this isn't a spot to steal the ante since someone limped in already, but with the bring in and a limper can we be aggressive with these cards, pound away at people with bets and win showdowns in the long run or ought I just call and try to make a high pair?

[Bartholow]

All those hands with an X in them are garbage (unless they are all suited or something). AKQ through AKT can be playable as a steal, or a limp if the table really is loose and passive. Don't delude yourself and start calling raises or anything though.

Once you get to be good at the game you might add back a couple hands based on very specific situations, but do yourself a favor and fold them all for now.

[Andy B]

There are no blinds in stud.

Once someone has limped, forget about stealing. You might limp in and try to pair up, but as I said earlier, high bags are not as strong in stud as they are in hold'em.